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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

It's a terrible plan and a disaster in progress. Half the people on the forum know this and criticize the plan...the other half also knows this and is compelled to defend it.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
It's a terrible plan and a disaster in progress.
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There are elements I'd have done differently ... but it's certainly not terrible! It's no where near as terrible if we'd have spent more money to do a lot less ... like extending the existing subway all the way to Scarborough Centre.

scarberiankhatru said:
Half the people on the forum know this and criticize the plan...the other half also knows this and is compelled to defend it.
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I think you seriously over-estimate the people even here that are against it. There are over 1,000 active members at Urban Toronto ... yet how many bothered to sign a petion? 20 perhaps? There's handful of vocal opponents here, a handful of vocal people opposing the opponents. And most threw their hands up in their air ages ago bored of the debate. If you think otherwise you should run a poll.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
It's a terrible plan and a disaster in progress. Half the people on the forum know this and criticize the plan...the other half also knows this and is compelled to defend it.
Click to expand...
I dunno, it seems more like a "there's nothing we can do about it, what's the point in attacking it?" mentality.

niftz said:
There are elements I'd have done differently ... but it's certainly not terrible! It's no where near as terrible if we'd have spent more money to do a lot less ... like extending the existing subway all the way to Scarborough Centre.
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Sure, extending it to STC would technically serve less people than LRT, but it's about quality of service. We've got a good 80% of possible riders West of Agincourt, but those 20% deserve just as good a service as the 80% in a much smaller area. Since subway the entire way isn't an option, we have to comprimise. People in Agincourt will benefit, but short serving the people in west of Agincourt that'll make up a large portion of the line for people East that'll have very little to do with the entire thing isn't exactly the best logic.

niftz said:
I think you seriously over-estimate the people even here that are against it. There are over 1,000 active members at Urban Toronto ... yet how many bothered to sign a petion? 20 perhaps? There's handful of vocal opponents here, a handful of vocal people opposing the opponents. And most threw their hands up in their air ages ago bored of the debate. If you think otherwise you should run a poll.
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Hah, 1.000 active members?! I think out of all the people that dare touch the transit board that actively participate, that number's closer to <100.

Not to mention I think that a bunch of people here (including me) have gotten really tired by the stubborn debates that are going on with these TC threads.

And you can't really use a petition that's buried about 10 or 15 pages in on a relatively obscure Toronto-obsessive forum as a good example of who's against it or not.
 
nfitz said:
There are elements I'd have done differently ... but it's certainly not terrible! It's no where near as terrible if we'd have spent more money to do a lot less ... like extending the existing subway all the way to Scarborough Centre.

I think you seriously over-estimate the people even here that are against it. There are over 1,000 active members at Urban Toronto ... yet how many bothered to sign a petion? 20 perhaps? There's handful of vocal opponents here, a handful of vocal people opposing the opponents. And most threw their hands up in their air ages ago bored of the debate. If you think otherwise you should run a poll.
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Petitions are useless. Internet polls are useless.

Spending over a billion dollars to replace buses with something no better than buses is stupid and squanders not just the opportunity to provide better transit service to the area than what currently exists - which can be accomplished with buses - but the billion dollars, as well.

And people here can simply choose to stop responding. Eventually, either through criticism or through proof-in-the-pudding realizations once it's finished and fails to live up to promises, it'll be branded a mistake...hopefully soon enough to prevent other mistakes.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
Petitions are useless. Internet polls are useless.

Spending over a billion dollars to replace buses with something no better than buses is stupid and squanders not just the opportunity to provide better transit service to the area than what currently exists - which can be accomplished with buses - but the billion dollars, as well.

And people here can simply choose to stop responding. Eventually, either through criticism or through proof-in-the-pudding realizations once it's finished and fails to live up to promises, it'll be branded a mistake...hopefully soon enough to prevent other mistakes.
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come on man, you and I both know the subway would never be put in place, no matter how much arguing or petitioning anybody does, Sheppard east only has any merit as a subway, because a subway is already on it, otherwise it is no different from finch west or any other route designated to have LRT. It is a shame that the subway won't be extended, but in all honesty i believe it would just cost too much to run considering the density does not warrant it at all, and even if it was extended to stc, there's no guarantee that the majority of them will actually need to use it to go to northwest Toronto...now if it went all out and was extended both west towards the airport and east, then it would be used alot by people in vuaghan richmond hill, markham and norther toronto...but that's a dream. I think everyone should try to a pick a fight that has a good chance of winning, like extending the subway west to Downsview.
 
BMO said:
come on man, you and I both know the subway would never be put in place, no matter how much arguing or petitioning anybody does, Sheppard east only has any merit as a subway, because a subway is already on it, otherwise it is no different from finch west or any other route designated to have LRT. It is a shame that the subway won't be extended, but in all honesty i believe it would just cost too much to run considering the density does not warrant it at all, and even if it was extended to stc, there's no guarantee that the majority of them will actually need to use it to go to northwest Toronto...now if it went all out and was extended both west towards the airport and east, then it would be used alot by people in vuaghan richmond hill, markham and norther toronto...but that's a dream. I think everyone should try to a pick a fight that has a good chance of winning, like extending the subway west to Downsview.
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Did you even read what you just quoted? If you did, are you still in elementary school?
 
junctionist said:
There's no need, since one has already been done. Naturally, over 80 percent of participants voted in favour of the subway.
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That poll was about 18 months ago, before the EA was finished, let alone before construction started!!

I'd think the results on a poll now would be quite different. There's a lot of difference in a poll asking what should be done, before anything has been decided, to a poll asking if construction should be stopped and plans change, after funding has been received.
 
nfitz said:
That poll was about 18 months ago, before the EA was finished, let alone before construction started!!

I'd think the results on a poll now would be quite different. There's a lot of difference in a poll asking what should be done, before anything has been decided, to a poll asking if construction should be stopped and plans change, after funding has been received.
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The only thing a new poll would determine would be how many people have defeatist attitudes.
 
waterloowarrior said:
When did construction start?
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About a week ago according to the Chair.

waterloowarrior said:
Must have missed the announcement.
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Announcements for the watermain construction have been on the Sheppard East LRT website for sometime; but there's now a note up about construction around the new grade separation. Giambone indicated the formal ground breaking would come later.

waterloowarrior said:
Who got the contract.. PCL? EllisDon?
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If they went with the lowest bidder, this phase went to Coco Paving for about $1-million. I'd think the tenders for the grade separation itself, and the first phase of the track would come in a few months.
 
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Dear All,

This is Councillor Giambrone's brother, Sadam Giambrone. How dare you raggamuffins try to modify the Sheppard East LRT plan. You can write letters and voice your opinion on this website but the plan is final and no changes will be made to it. My word...your plans for subway extensions east to Kennedy Road or as far as STC are too expensive and there is currently not enough demand. It will not happen! SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU RAGGAMUFFINS!! You made me so mad, I am going to have to skip the protest this coming weekend!

Ta Ta,
Sadam Giambrone

PS: For your actions, Mayor David Miller won't be visiting your neighbourhoods anytime soon. I know...it's very sad!
 
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