News   Dec 20, 2024
 959     5 
News   Dec 20, 2024
 737     2 
News   Dec 20, 2024
 1.2K     0 

Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

Or an anti-transit Mayor like Pittfield or Tory. We are looking at about an extra $12-billion in capital spending in the next 6 years ... almost $2-billion a year. What was Pittfield proposing? $200-million a year? Tory didn't have any great plans.
 
Pitfield was anti-Transit for proposing to extend the subway 2km a year? That's blatant rhetoric and you know it. John Tory was not anti-transit either. He didn't emphasize transit as much as Miller did to be sure. But to paint him as anti-transit in the mold of Harris and company is stretching the truth beyond its breaking point. Their plans pre-dated MO2020 and Metrolinx. Pitfield's 200 million per year was a practical solution for Toronto in the face of senior governments that were opposed to spending on transit. How were they to know that the province was going to pour in billions into transit? Imagine what they would have planned if they knew the province was willing to put in 10-15 billion (Transit City is way past 6 billion now) for transit improvements into Toronto. Suggesting that they didn't care about transit is dishonest and intentionally misleading.
 
Last edited:
As for an anti-transit premier. I'll be that any premier who comes forward from here on in will simply be less or more pro-transit. No premier from this point forward can afford to be anti-transit like Harris was. The 905 has grown significantly since the Harris days and now has transit issues similar to the 416 suburbs in the 90s. That's where the votes are and if they want them to have pay at least minimal attention to their demands for better transit. Also, by the next provincial election a whole bunch of transit projects will be underway. Several will be close to completion and a good proportion will be past the halfway mark. Any premier who decides to follow the Harris Eglinton West precedent is sure to limit himself to one term. When Harris canned Eglinton West, he impacted only one municipality really: Etobicoke.

I'd like to see a mayor who has the guts to can two subway extensions into York region, a LRT that connects to the airport, go rail improvements into the 905, the 403 and 407 busways that lie entirely in the 905 and cut through several jurisdictions (including many that are Conservative held or have been PC in very recent past). Moreover, the success of these transit projects (particularly the GO improvements and the York subway extensions) depends on transit in the core improving and adding capacity.

Indeed, as far as political risk goes, it's Transit City that's in danger. The plan is predicated on all the lines getting built to truly be successful. If a future government has a change of heart and cancels even a few TC lines, the plan will have major gaps in service, making it a failure on the whole. And let's face it, canceling a LRT line carries far less political risk than a subway line. How many Torontonians really know about Transit City? And how many would really, really be upset if a line or two were canceled. From that perspective, subways do carry less political risk because they take far more political capital to cancel. I would daresay that what the Tories the most in Toronto was not their social policies (which didn't have that much day to day impact on the middle class) by their transit policies and more specifically their subway cancellations.

If political risk is the main consideration then, the best thing to do would have been to get the subways that are 416 only under construction as quickly as possible. In order of priority these would be: the DRL, Sheppard East, Eglinton centre (Keele to Leslie), Eglinton West (Keele to Pearson airport) and Sheppard West (Yonge to Downsview).
 
Pitfield was anti-Transit for proposing to extend the subway 2km a year?
Was it 2-km a year? I wasn't paying much attention at the time, as it was clear that she never had a chance; I thought she'd talked about a $ amount ... and I didn't think it was high enough to build 2 km a year ... oh hear it is ... 2 km per year, with 100-km per kilometer. So that's $200-million a year ... plus $50-million per station - with the 800 m station ... well let's call it $350-million a year.

That's blatant rhetoric and you know it.
Apparently not ... maybe anti-transit wasn't the best term. But she never in her career pushed for the kind of transit expansion we are looking at currently.

John Tory was not anti-transit either. He didn't emphasize transit as much as Miller did to be sure.
Yes, perhaps anti-transit isn't the best phrase. But certainly not pro-transit. I'm sure if either had been elected, we wouldn't be as far ahead as we are now.
 
Apparently not ... maybe anti-transit wasn't the best term. But she never in her career pushed for the kind of transit expansion we are looking at currently.

Because there was already a plan in place....remember? The one that called for subways to be built in some suburban corridors. Her goal was to get that implemented. Just because she didn't advocate throwing all existing plans out the window and drawing up a glorified streetcar program to lift troubled kids out of poverty does not mean that she did not advocate for transit expansion.

I strongly disagree with labeling someone who has steady long term vision as lacking ambition. If the next mayor comes in and rips up Transit City and puts out a new plan, are you going to suggest that he/she is visionary and that Miller did not support transit expansion as much as the new mayor?

The beauty of her plan was that it was scalable and allowed for economies of scale. If she got more money from the province she could have simply accelerated her plan, while costs would have been seriously contained thanks to the economies of scale that come from steady continuous expansion. No buying new boring machines every time. No starting up and closing project offices all the time. It's not a sexy plan. But it's exactly how most major cities around the world handle transit expansion.

Yes, perhaps anti-transit isn't the best phrase. But certainly not pro-transit. I'm sure if either had been elected, we wouldn't be as far ahead as we are now.

We'll never know, now will we. Given that Miller hasn't built a thing yet, I don't think we are as far along as Miller deserves credit for. But, if under Tory the province was willing to follow the existing plan at the time, do you really believe we would be behind what Miller's accomplished today?

There's a valid EA to extend the Sheppard subway further (to Vic Park I think) that could have been used by simply throwing some money at it. That alone would have been a bigger accomplishment that any actual built transit infrastructure under Miller. The rest of the stuff Miller's building like the SRT upgrade, Union station upgrades, etc. were all inevitable regardless of whoever was in the hot seat. So who's to say that we would not have been further along under Tory than Miller? I am willing to bet that at least Tory would have prioritized the DRL over other improvements in this city. That alone would have been a massive accomplishment over anything Transit City will pull off.

Finally on this point, I consider it ridiculous to suggest that just because somebody is a Conservative that they automatically won't support transit. There are conservatives mayors in Europe building high speed rail lines all over the place. We have a Republican governor in California who is pushing for one of the biggest expansions of HSR in US history. And we have a Conservative mayor in London who is presiding over one of the biggest expansions of the Underground in decades. I think John Tory would have been a mayor of a similar mold. Given the funds, he would have expanded the transit system to the extent that he could. Unfortunately, he was fighting an election where transit wasn't an issue, during a period when funding for transit wasn't sure and so he had to talk about the things that would help him get elected. He talked about crime, the Island airport, etc. Even Miller talked rather vaguely about transit and deploying some LRT here and there. Transit City came along only after he was in power. It's dishonest to suggest that Miller won because of Transit City, and that by extension John Tory was not pro-transit enough to win.
 
Why such a rush? Don't want another anti-transit Premier, like Mike Harris, to do what he did with the Eglinton West subway. Destroy transit use and projects for another 10 years.

2010 and 2011 are election years and want something to show why they should be reelected
 
Why such a rush? Don't want another anti-transit Premier, like Mike Harris, to do what he did with the Eglinton West subway. Destroy transit use and projects for another 10 years.

That's a poor philosophy on which to build transit projects that should serve us for decades or even centuries to come. For fear of what the next 4-8 years might bring, we should pick a sub-optimal solution to serve us for the next 100?
 
Actually, the Eglinton West subway would have been almost only within the City of York, not Etobicoke at all.

I stand corrected. To re-iterate my originial point though...cancellation of the Eglinton West subway carried with it very little political cost. Especially during a time period when the public at large felt that combating the deficit was priority one. A subway that was designed to serve mostly one municipality was seen as expendable. However, subways that serve potential Conservative or swing voters would be far more difficult to cancel. Can you even imagine the Conservatives now suggesting that the Richmond Hill subway should be canceled? I am willing to bet that if they got elected they might even accelerate some projects like the Yonge extension or the various Viva projects. The political risk largely falls on Toronto only projects since Toronto does not elect Conservative politicians. That's why, if we were concerned about the future, we should have prioritized those high capital projects that could have been significantly underway under this government ie. the subway network....instead of a LRT program that will take at least a decade to finish. If it was me I would have pushed for finishing the Sheppard subway, replacing the SRT with a Bloor-Danforth extension and building the DRL first. Launch the EAs on them and get them underway before 2011. The LRT plan would have been undertaken after 2015 or even 2020.

On the broader picture it might not hurt TO to elect a Conservative or two....particularly if their riding lies along a proposed subway or LRT. You can bet that project would go through then. It won't happen but it's something to think about. Seems to work for Quebec and Vaughan.
 
I stand corrected. To re-iterate my originial point though...cancellation of the Eglinton West subway carried with it very little political cost. Especially during a time period when the public at large felt that combating the deficit was priority one. A subway that was designed to serve mostly one municipality was seen as expendable. However, subways that serve potential Conservative or swing voters would be far more difficult to cancel. Can you even imagine the Conservatives now suggesting that the Richmond Hill subway should be canceled? I am willing to bet that if they got elected they might even accelerate some projects like the Yonge extension or the various Viva projects. The political risk largely falls on Toronto only projects since Toronto does not elect Conservative politicians. That's why, if we were concerned about the future, we should have prioritized those high capital projects that could have been significantly underway under this government ie. the subway network....instead of a LRT program that will take at least a decade to finish. If it was me I would have pushed for finishing the Sheppard subway, replacing the SRT with a Bloor-Danforth extension and building the DRL first. Launch the EAs on them and get them underway before 2011. The LRT plan would have been undertaken after 2015 or even 2020.

On the broader picture it might not hurt TO to elect a Conservative or two....particularly if their riding lies along a proposed subway or LRT. You can bet that project would go through then. It won't happen but it's something to think about. Seems to work for Quebec and Vaughan.

So I guess that explains why Mississauga has not gotten a subway running to it? Our politicians are too liberal and liberals apparently like LRTs and conservatives like subways (because they don't get in the way of cars). Although to be fair, Mississauga does a have a single Con politician, MP for Mississauga--Erindale, Bob Dechert. Unfortunately even I don't see a subway hitting Erindale, not even in the far future.
 
So I guess that explains why Mississauga has not gotten a subway running to it?
Mississauga has no subway planned because neither the City of Missisauga or the Region of Peel have shown any interest in it. They've expressed interest in the BRT along 403, and the LRT along Hurontario and Dundas; and that's exactly what has shown up in the Metrolinx funding documents.

Had Mayor McCallion been pushing a subway or two to Mississauga, I'm quite sure she'd have gotten it by now.
 
So I guess that explains why Mississauga has not gotten a subway running to it? Our politicians are too liberal and liberals apparently like LRTs and conservatives like subways (because they don't get in the way of cars). Although to be fair, Mississauga does a have a single Con politician, MP for Mississauga--Erindale, Bob Dechert. Unfortunately even I don't see a subway hitting Erindale, not even in the far future.

I was always under the impression that Mississauga wanted to minimize their costs.
 

Back
Top