Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

[Epi]

"No ticket!" face the consequences.

I was thinking of this the other day in the other thread about making sure people paid


Really all of this speculation about people not paying and 'getting onto the subway' is kind of silly. If people really wanted to not pay, they could easily not pay now... they just walk into any subway station via the ground-level bus station and walk in from the road. Or they can bunch up 2 people per turnstile. Or they can duck under turnstiles when it's busy. Or they can walk by lazy fare collectors who don't care. Or... well there's a lot of ways you can theoretically not pay right now. I'd like to think that people who are honest now, will be honest with LRT.

Obviously if we ever had huge problems with payment, then eventually there would be justification for paying for infrastructure to ensure people pay (better gates with better equipment) but for now it's all speculation!

 

[Eug]

I sure hope they don't pay a ticket checker anywhere near what a driver gets paid.

Otherwise, we're gonna have an expansion of that $100000/yr club with overtime-heavy ticket checkers...

The only reason drivers are getting over $100,000 a year is because they choose to work a lot of overtime. Is that really a bad thing?

I don't have any problem with drivers getting paid appropriately. I didn't spell it out, but my post was actually in reference to TTC ticket takers being able to make that much too. That IMO is absurd, even with lots of overtime.

 

[MisterF]

I'm still confused. Say a passenger boards at Warden. He/she would have paid, right? He/she gets to Don Mills and transfers to the subway. There shouldn't be a need to pay, since he/she already paid at Warden. Same if it's the other way around. Person boards at Don Mills (or Bayview or Leslie, or whatever). Pays there. Gets to Don Mills and transfers to the LRT. No need, since he/she already paid. Shouldn't it be like transfering from one subway line to another?

I don't see transferring from POP light rail lines to the subway being a problem. If it were, POP wouldn't exist in the first place. But riders going from the subway to LRT would need some sort of proof of payment if they paid with tokens or cash. Not a big deal to have transfer machines on the platforms I would think.

Another option is to make the whole subway system POP. That's how the Prague metro operates.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Sheppard East LRT will supposedly be running to Meadowvale Road. There is a campaign to make the Rouge Valley a national park.

I just find it interesting that the light rail line could be ending up at the edge, or in the middle (if it terminates at the zoo entrance) of a national park. No need for automobiles to get to the park.

 

[Second_in_pie]

It would certainly be convenient for the LRT to go right to the Zoo Entrance. I definitely see a point in extending it all the way to Medowvale if there was a stop near the Zoo, as that would probably attract a lot of ridership.

Oh, and while you're asking, Finch West should terminate at Wild Water Kingdom

 

[kEiThZ]

While I would have preferred the subway extension, if the LRT is going to run to Meadowvale I don't see the point of stopping there when there is a good trip generator a km down the road. Certainly, the zoo would be a bigger trip generator than the corner of Meadowvale and Sheppard. The marginal cost here is only the extension from Meadowvale/Sheppard to the zoo. I think its worthwhile.

 

[Dan416]

While I would have preferred the subway extension, if the LRT is going to run to Meadowvale I don't see the point of stopping there when there is a good trip generator a km down the road. Certainly, the zoo would be a bigger trip generator than the corner of Meadowvale and Sheppard. The marginal cost here is only the extension from Meadowvale/Sheppard to the zoo. I think its worthwhile.

I dunno, kinda strikes me as throwing good money after bad.

 

[Amphibius]

Unless the Metro Zoo covers the cost of the extension itself (~$15 million), I don't see the point when patrons could just utilize the existing frequently scheduled 86 Scarborough bus which essentially becomes a non-stop shuttle to the Zoo entrance north of Sheppard anyway. Seasonal amusement park venues just don't make for year-round sustainable transit usage.

 

[EnviroTO]

I heard someone justifying the extension as a park-and-ride considering all the parking there. I can't really imagine anyone parking at the farthest end of the line though. Honestly, east of Markam Road this route should have taken either McLevin while keeping a Sheppard East bus to start from the end of the SRT replacement to the Zoo. If they are going to run the Sheppard LRT to Morningside then they might as well serve the Zoo because a transfer at that point would be a pointless hassle. Perhaps a better connection to the city would get more tourists to go there.

 

[RedRocket191]

Unless the Metro Zoo covers the cost of the extension itself (~$15 million), I don't see the point when patrons could just utilize the existing frequently scheduled 86 Scarborough bus which essentially becomes a non-stop shuttle to the Zoo entrance north of Sheppard anyway. Seasonal amusement park venues just don't make for year-round sustainable transit usage.

Since the Zoo is owned by the City the money would (through creative accounting) be coming from the same place anyway.

And the zoo is not seasonal - they don't shut down the animals for the winter. Well, maybe the bears...

 

[Automation Gallery]

Seasonal amusement park venues just don't make for year-round sustainable transit usage.

Since when is a city zoo classified or even considered an amusement park venue.

 

[DavidH]

Since when is a city zoo classified or even considered an amusement park venue.

His point is still valid, though. Most of the ridership is seasonal and it's questionable whether the cost of an LRT extension to zoo property would make sense.

I'd prefer to see a separate shuttle service provided from Meadovalue/Sheppard to the Zoo entrance, with frequency depending on seasonal demand.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Since the Zoo is owned by the City the money would (through creative accounting) be coming from the same place anyway.

And the zoo is not seasonal - they don't shut down the animals for the winter. Well, maybe the bears...

The zoo is closed only on Christmas Day. Otherwise it is open. The 85 Sheppard East bus has limited service to the Toronto Zoo .

The 86A Scarborough bus route operates to the Zoo from Kennedy Station every day during the summer. Buses run from about 6am to 8pm. After Labour Day, 86A Scarborough buses operate to the Zoo from Monday to Friday only.

The 85 Sheppard East bus route operates to the Zoo from Don Mills Station and Rouge Hill GO Station on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays. 85A "Via Toronto Zoo" and 85B "To Toronto Zoo" buses serve the Zoo directly, from about 7am to 8pm. Other 85 Sheppard East buses serve the Sheppard Avenue/Meadowvale Road intersection, where customers can transfer to 86A Scarborough buses for the short trip into the Zoo.

Most people drive to the Zoo at present. If the LRT went to the Zoo, I would be using it instead of the car.

 

[nfitz]

I don't see the point when patrons could just utilize the existing frequently scheduled 86 Scarborough bus which essentially becomes a non-stop shuttle to the Zoo entrance north of Sheppard anyway.

That's the problem. The 2 services currently to the zoo are the Scarborough and Sheppard. Sheppard will be gone with this LRT. And Scarborough will be gone with the other LRT. So you are left with this little stub that requires a lot of capacity, erratically.

 

[Voltz]

^
the 86 scarborough should still be running on meadowvale, it's not all being replaced by the LRT, plus there will still be a bus route on sheppard east of where the LRT ends, they could easily run that route up to the zoo as well,