nfitz
Superstar
Yes ... back in the winter. See http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/sheppard_east_lrt/pdf/2010-01-19_overview.pdf
Why would they? They aren't in Ward 41. This was put together for a local meeting, wasn't it?
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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
The big reason that the converting the Sheppard subway to LRT seems to be so expensive is that the tunnel doesn't seem to be big enough to deal with the overhead catenary.
But what if they were using Bombardier's PRIMOVE catenary-free technology. That should allow for operating of LRT in the subway tunnel without having to deal with the problem of the catenary not fitting.
How much would conversion cost then?
But what if they were using Bombardier's PRIMOVE catenary-free technology. That should allow for operating of LRT in the subway tunnel without having to deal with the problem of the catenary not fitting.
How much would conversion cost then?
Voltz
Senior Member
I doubt the tunnels are too small, expanding them would cost a lot more than what they quoted for a conversion.
I do recall it being mentioned unofficially that LRT's could fit.
lafard
Active Member
The clearance issues are due to the fact that the only feasible way of conversion to low-floor is to raise the track beds in the station, which is why there are clearance issues. It is not feasible to lower the platforms. In-tunnel clearance is a lesser issue as the voltage is low enough that the panto doesn't need a lot of clearance (I believe Hong Kong's metro uses pantos for power collection with fairly minimal overhead clearance)
There is always the option of running it as a C-train style high-floor LRT, but that produces an orphan fleet and complicates future interlining.
There is always the option of running it as a C-train style high-floor LRT, but that produces an orphan fleet and complicates future interlining.
CDL.TO
Moderator
You could install a shoe on the LRT vehicles and continue to use the third rail in the tunnel section, switching to catenary for the above-ground section.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
If there's going to be an SELRT then it would be preferable to extend it in the existing tunnel also and extending it west as well. Although I agree with having a minimum of 800M stop spacing with a local bus thrown in, and try to get the tracks off the road whenever possible running at grade but in trenches and alongside the road. And since the area is suburban there's less there to have to build around or inconvenience.
Dan416
Senior Member
SELRT seems to be Ford's top priority to kill, which I agree with. Luckily, no LRT-specific construction has started yet. The only thing happening right now is the Sheppard-Agincourt GO grade separation, which had to happen anyway.
Ford wants a Downsview to STC Sheppard Subway by 2015. If he accomplishes that, I'd be really pleasantly shocked. Even if it were to happen by 2016 I'd be shocked.
But at least he has a reasonable plan. I'm personally not against at-grade LRT. But it really needs to be built like an LRT and not like a streetcar. And not on SUBWAY corridors.
Ford wants a Downsview to STC Sheppard Subway by 2015. If he accomplishes that, I'd be really pleasantly shocked. Even if it were to happen by 2016 I'd be shocked.
But at least he has a reasonable plan. I'm personally not against at-grade LRT. But it really needs to be built like an LRT and not like a streetcar. And not on SUBWAY corridors.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
You call a plan that kills Eglinton - the tunnelled central portion passing though what is arguably the second most important node in the city and to which YYZ and STC can be linked - reasonable?
AoD
AoD
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Paleo
Active Member
Sheppard isn't the end all and be all of transportation corridors in this city. Not by a long shot. It's way down the list. Yet some people will live and die by it.
To the point of irrationality.
Justin10000
Banned
The RTES is like some sacred document to these people.
sixrings
Senior Member
Eglinton =
1. Only crosstown street in the city which crosses all five boroughs
2. Connects to two potential GO train stops (caledonia, Weston)
3. Connects to Eglinton and Yonge a growning Urban Centre
4. Connects to Pearson Airport
5. Has a central section that even with Bus Only lanes is hindered by traffic from the ALLEN
6. Is more often 4 lanes Versus 6 Lanes
7. Has been in planning / developing stages since before Mike Harris
1. Only crosstown street in the city which crosses all five boroughs
2. Connects to two potential GO train stops (caledonia, Weston)
3. Connects to Eglinton and Yonge a growning Urban Centre
4. Connects to Pearson Airport
5. Has a central section that even with Bus Only lanes is hindered by traffic from the ALLEN
6. Is more often 4 lanes Versus 6 Lanes
7. Has been in planning / developing stages since before Mike Harris
Dan416
Senior Member
You bring this unfounded point up again. Where has anyone talked about cancelling Eglinton? And do you people forget half of Ford's Executive Council's wards include Eglinton?
I thought UrbanToronto was about rational debate. Not scaremongering.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
First of all, where is the line in RF's immediate plan? Since YOU are so confident, YOU point out where the line is in his platform. Second, his executive committee notwithstanding, what guarantees are there that the line will be built in a future timeframe beyond the control of the current regime, given resource constraints? Why should a line with a better case be relegated to nothingness in a rational election platform? You explain it to me.
If you are remotely rational, you'd suggest that one ditch SELRT and use the funds for nothing but the far more worthwhile Eglinton line and the BD extension. Actually come to think of it, I thought UT is about intelligent debate, not fanboyism.
AoD
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Dan416
Senior Member
Who is to say we can't have Sheppard and Danforth terminate at STC? If I had to choose one or the other, of course I'd cancel SELRT for the Danforth extension. That's a no brainer.
As for Eglinton, I have no guarantees about it one way or the other. But Webster has implied that it's surface LRT that Ford is targetting. So that would leave Eglinton's LRT tunnel intact. And Ford's executive will surely have a say.
My point with Eglinton is no one knows for sure right now what Ford's plan with it is. So saying it's as dead as the rest of Transit City is premature at the very least and fearmongering at worst.
As for fanboyism, I suggest you listen to any of the LRTistas arguments.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
And lest we are being served with TWO subway lines to STC and nothing else for the entire city. Are you somehow arguing that STC is such a huge trip generator that it demands service by two subway lines where most of the riders are travelling to downtown when there are routes in the city without a single one? No brainer, indeed.
And yes, money grows on trees, that somehow you can have 3 concurrent subway extensions all under the existing funding envelope. Right. Besides you haven't answered the question - why isn't anything else but Sheppard and BD extension in RF's plan? Beyond that, please remind me how RF intended to juggle the budget as per his platform. I am sure you have read it, no?
I am not even an LRTista, quite frankly, I don't really care that much about whether it is an LRT or HRT - I am more concerned about the completeness of the network. Clearly, you don't.
AoD
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