Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

[Second_in_pie]

For those who badly want a Sheppard Subway extension, why not start up debates on Steve Munro's website and catch the eye of his followers (some of which work for the City of Toronto)? Maybe a debate on that site could lead somewhere

He silences non-agreers.

And outside input was in no way taken during Metrolinx meetings or LRT EA's. There was really nothing anyone could do to change the plan at the time of conception, but this is the point that it starts becoming possible. We just need to get talk starting.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

There were talks about S.O.S. going on CP24's LeDrew Live to discuss why second thoughts should be given to Transit City. What happened to that idea?

 

[Dan416]

For those who badly want a Sheppard Subway extension, why not start up debates on Steve Munro's website and catch the eye of his followers (some of which work for the City of Toronto)? Maybe a debate on that site could lead somewhere

I think you know very well the efficacy of trying to debate with Steve Munro on his own website, which is why you brought it up. But thanks for playing. Please try again.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I think you know very well the efficacy of trying to debate with Steve Munro on his own website, which is why you brought it up. But thanks for playing. Please try again.

Maybe you could have a debate on Munro's website (or somewhere else) and actually get somewhere. People need to post facts with references (versus 'I think' or 'I assume' comments). It all comes down to the strength of the debater.

 

[andomano]

Maybe you could have a debate on Munro's website (or somewhere else) and actually get somewhere. People need to post facts with references (versus 'I think' or 'I assume' comments). It all comes down to the strength of the debater.

-1 for missing Coru's point completely.

 

[Ed Drass]

He [Munro] silences non-agreers.

Please elaborate.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

-1 for missing Coru's point completely.

What a cheesy response! I was not responding directly to Coru anyways. Coru wants a Sheppard Subway extension but him and others do absolutely nothing about it! They just talk and do nothing!! When you go through the thread, you guys tried creating a petition back in August. Was that even submitted?

Not once have I heard anyone in favour of the Sheppard Subway extension having meetings with Giambrone, City Council, TTC, or Metrolinx to change their minds. Instead they come on here and complain to people who do not have the power to modify the project.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think referring to Steve Munro as an LRT-obsessed fanatic who is implementing an entirely illogical scheme to destroy transit in Toronto and who hates subways soooo much might sort of explain why there's not a lot of potential for debate there.

 

[Fresh Start]

If you are all so concerned about so little being done, then DO something.

I don't live in Scarborough, so I really don't give a flying squirrel what happens in the end, because I won't be riding it. And I don't think anyone who would have switche to an extended Sheppard Subway will switch for a new LRT that is as slow as this one will be.

No, no, no... if the public comes at YOU inquiring what moves has your advocacy organization made towards promoting the legitimacy of expanding the network with subways in key corridors, this is not the sort of response you should be uttering. One, one individuals can be written off, an organized group of professionals cannot so easily. And pitting borough against borough with flippant, off-the-cuff remarks like: "I don't live in Scarborough, so I really don't give a flying squirrel what happens in that end" is the surest way for the public to loose all faith and credibility in your cause.

I devoted countless hours into designing and planning solutions, many of which you've adopted into SOS canon, so don't come at me saying I haven't done anything. Was it not I whom first suggested to you that we form a petition group? Now it's time to produce results. I just want to know what our next course of action is, when precisely we can get individuals like Adam Giambrone critiquing the merits of our plan and have the press or one of our representatives fire back rebuttals. When we can get major candidates for Mayor on-stage saying: "I'm the pro-Sheppard Subway and pro-Bloor Danforth subway to Scarborough Town Centre candidate and I approve this message!" ... that's when the high times and merriment can begin. But if you don't have the motivation or enthusiasm for the plan and all that it'll entail then why lead us on that we can make a difference? All the bravado talk we can spew on UrbanToronto alone won't change a damn thing.

In regards to Steve Munro, he does allow limited forum for dissent on his website. I've tousled with him a few times and I know the regular poster M. Briganti always says something that Steve disagrees with. We don't have to be foaming at the mouth rabid about subway promotion, we only have to sound informed, objective and open to constructive criticism. The truth of the matter is that we need a Steve Munro-type person to be our spokesperson and perhaps then we'd be far more persuasive... and visible.

 

[Dan416]

Not once have I heard anyone in favour of the Sheppard Subway extension having meetings with Giambrone, City Council, TTC, or Metrolinx to change their minds. Instead they come on here and complain to people who do not have the power to modify the project.

In case you hadn't noticed, that's what EVERYONE on this board does. The internet and all its fora are full of people complaining and not being able to do anything about it.

That said, you do realize how ridiculous what you're saying sounds right? Oh, because you haven't met with City Council personally, I don't agree with you?

Have YOU tried to meet with Giambrone, City Council, the TTC or Metrolinx to get them to change their minds? If not, then clam up and stop complaining. Otherwise you're just trolling.

 

[LowerBay]

I think you guys are giving Steve Munro far more credit for Transit City and the Sheppard LRT than he deserves. If he was *that* influential, don't you think he'd be on one of the Transit City project teams by now?

I like the guy and respect his opinion. I think he's very intelligent and very well spoken, but the truth is he's lived a very limited life, and his views on transit and LRT vs. subway are based on that.

I know that he's lived downtown his entire life, never married/had his own family, and never drove a car (he doesn't even have a driver's license). That kind of lifestyle doesn't exactly give you the perspective of a suburban resident who needs a fast long-distance travel alternative to the car. So, he thinks in terms of local, slow, short-distance trips. Giambrone is the same. Add in the streetcar nostalgia from childhood, and there you have it.

On the other hand, the pro-subway crowd tends to see the broader picture ... the long-haul congestion on the 400 series highways, and so forth, and realizes that Transit City doesn't address that. I generally don't see subway advocates rule out LRT entirely, but I definitely see LRT advocates dismiss the idea of ANY new subway route in Toronto. That speaks for itself.

 

[GenerationW]

Mel had a legacy. A subway for North York, he got it. Makes you wonder why the line ended right at North York's border.

North York's border is/was Victoria Park, not Don Mills. And it ended at Don Mills because that's all the money Mel could squeeze out of the City and especially the Province (from both the indecisive Rae and the tightwad Harris), and Harris certainly wasn't going to up the ante as his massive budget cuts forced the TTC to do this.

 

[GenerationW]

On the other hand, the pro-subway crowd tends to see the broader picture ... the long-haul congestion on the 400 series highways, and so forth, and realizes that Transit City doesn't address that. I generally don't see subway advocates rule out LRT entirely, but I definitely see LRT advocates dismiss the idea of ANY new subway route in Toronto. That speaks for itself.

From talking to him in the summer at an open house, I understood Giambrone's "broader picture" for the TTC to be that Transit City will only go part ways to modernizing the TTC, and that another major upgrade/plan/phase will be required after TC is completed which will require more subway expansion than we're getting with TC.

Now, considering that subway construction costs are ever increasing (or so we're told), I'd like to know why his vision isn't bass ackwards.

 

[Inkarnate]

All there is right now is talk, talk, talk. There's no action taking place.

Less of the talk, more of the action, please. Or nobody will get anywhere.

 

[Ansem]

sos members, go to our social group threads and you will see that I have send an invitation for our 1st meeting in January. Gweed and I said yes and we`re waiting for the other members to answer. We agreed to meet at a library at Yonge-Bloor...
Keithz won`t make it but we offered video conference or chat live with him during the meeting.

I said we should finalize our plan and prepare a powerpoint presentation and divide the tasks....