Transit City Plan

[Palma]

No, it was only merged with Toronto very recently. 1997 if I recall correctly.

Before the creation of Metro Toronto, the TTC primarily served the old city, with a few odd routes out into North York, Scarborough, East York - however they required extra fares - much in the same manner TTC has recently operated in Mississauga, Vaughan, Richmond Hill, and Markham. Even after the Bloor-Danforth line was constructed, there was fare zones in the subway when it crossed the city boundary at Jane and Main Street. It was only in the 1970s that fare zones with Metro were eliminated. At about the same time, government had to start subsidizing transit.

Not for most of the TTC's existence! Heck, for the longest time, there was only the Kingston Road streetcar running east of Victoria Park. I'd assume a lot of service that was in Scarborough at the time, ran to the old bus terminal on Danforth, east of Coxwell.

I can't believe what i am reading here. Scarborough was very much a city as was North York and even York, Only East York never aspired to city status. And then of course all were amalgamated into the City of Toronto. If given a choice between Vaughan and Scarborough I would pick and choose subway to Scarborough as it is part of Toronto and Vaughan is not - at least not yet

 

[Palma]

Also have to point out. The distance (the shortest distance by road) from Malvern Centre (intersection of Nielsen and Mciven) to City Hall is 26.3 km. The distance Vaughan Corporate Metropolitan City Centre to City hall is only 24 km.

On google maps I entered Millway Ave and highway 7 (where Vaughan Metro Centre will be) to 100 Qyeen st west (City Hall) and it shows 27.9km. I add another destination, Nielsen and Malvern. The distance from City hall to Malvern and Nielsen shows 25.5 km. You could almost draw a straight line between Vaughan and Malvern but you can see Vaughan is more north

 

[Palma]

The rule of thumb for transit planning is a quarter mile walk for local services, and a half mile walk for rapid service. To translate this to our bi-kilometer grid, a stop every 500m (three mid-block stops) for local and every 1000m (one mod-block stop) for rapid.

Or a 5-6 minute walk between local stops, and a 10-12 minute walk between rapid stops.

Seems reasonable to me

 

[Palma]

2km walk is not a problem if its the entire commute. but to suggest many residents will walk 2km to start their commute is asking a bit much.

electrify palma keeps suggesting that we need larger spacing and referencing her walk from home to yorkdale mall station. im happy she was able and wanted to do that but it is asking a bit much. i too believe the walk would be good for everyones health but 20mins is abit unrealistic. tc lrt lines should incorporate wide spacing 750+m otherwise they risk being mistaken for simply a larger streetcar.

I never suggested large spacing. I keep reading on here about people wanting rapid transit and larger spacing. Thats why I mentioned of people keep wanting larger spacing how else. Its not because I want it. Because with those large spacing I have said in the past you leave out people that live in between those stops. And local transit should be just that for local transit and not to get someone form one part to another part of the city express. I cannot believe a 15 min walk every morning to get the subway is too much. Wow! Thats all I can say. But at the same time kinda sad.

 

[nfitz]

On google maps I entered Millway Ave and highway 7 (where Vaughan Metro Centre will be) to 100 Qyeen st west (City Hall) and it shows 27.9km.

I get 24 km by the shortest route. 27.9 km is the quickest driving direction, and doubles back on itself. Switch to walking instead of driving, that gives you a better estimate of distance.

 

[jje1000]

The latest and greatest pro-subway advocacy group to pop up. Lovely. Now find a way to pay for it while explaining to bus riders on Finch why they aren't getting anything at all.

http://www.subwaysto.com/

Twitter:
http://twitter.com/#!/SubwaysTO

 

[sixrings]

I never suggested large spacing. I keep reading on here about people wanting rapid transit and larger spacing. Thats why I mentioned of people keep wanting larger spacing how else. Its not because I want it. Because with those large spacing I have said in the past you leave out people that live in between those stops. And local transit should be just that for local transit and not to get someone form one part to another part of the city express. I cannot believe a 15 min walk every morning to get the subway is too much. Wow! Thats all I can say. But at the same time kinda sad.

ok sorry for the misunderstanding. ftr i advocate for stop spacing to be in line with only major intersections and possibly one in between. i think that works out to about 750m.

anyways yea the 20 min walk thing is sad. when i was in high school i would walk 30 min to school walk home for lunch then back to school and then back home again. 90% of my friends took the bus or got a drive tho which i never understood. every been squished into a elevator just to have someone get off on the second floor when the stairs were right beside the elevator? finally to end my rant i think part of the condo boom today and it will continue in the future is that the young people who are buying do not want stairs a lawn to mow or a driveway to shovel. we have really become a lazy lathargic bunch.

is the cartoon movie "wall.e" really our future?

 

[MetroMan]

^ So now they've resorted to straight out lying?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Oops, I did it again!

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...-mayor-rob-ford-doesn-t-want-you-to-read?bn=1

AoD

 

[EMP1729]

I suppose that given a choice, everyone would choose a Rolls Royce over a Taurus every time.

But only until they found out what the purchase price, insurance, gas, and maintenance costs would be.

I think this subway vs LRT debate is more like a Car vs SUV debate. A lot of people buy pick-up trucks, minivans and SUVs when a car would suffice, despite the added cost of insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. Unfortunately, North Americans are so conditioned to consume more than they need. Our Mayor is the prime example.

 

[Justin10000]

^ So now they've resorted to straight out lying?

Pretty much.

The subway advocates are sounding quite desperate now.

 

[Electrify]

Something to consider when dealing with rapid transit grades:

In the dense inner city, congestion is naturally high enough that the time taken to reach the train platform is more than made up by the speed of the line, when compared to driving. In lower density areas, the time taken to reach a grade separated rail platform is nothing but a loss, as opposed to accessing it on the street.

On a side topic, while I have been talking about converting the Sheppard 'mass rail' into light rail for easy extensions, I wonder if we could do something like this...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Southshoremichigancity.jpg

EDIT: While this running condition was just a fantasy, digging deeper it may be more attainable than I previously thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-system_(rail). How much would it cost to convert the Sheppard line to one of these systems?

 

[leopetr]

It is. But this would imply a 3 km to 4 km spacing. I don't think anyone is proposing that.

Wide station spacing implies long walks at both ends of the commute. 0.5 km walk to the street, 0.5 km walk along the street, time on transit, 0.5 km walk along the street, 0.5 km walk away from the street adds up to 2km fairly easily.

 

[EMP1729]

^^^

Is that photo real or photoshop? I would envision Rob Ford using this photo in order to discourage LRT.

Honestly, I would hate to live on that street if a train was running down the middle like that.

 

[BMO]

^ So now they've resorted to straight out lying?

well to be fair, they probably don't consider above ground LRT "rapid transit" (like many ppl) so they wouldn't be lying.