News   Dec 01, 2022
 703     0 
News   Dec 01, 2022
 443     0 
News   Dec 01, 2022
 1.3K     0 

Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 87 81.3%
  • Ford City

    Votes: 20 18.7%

  • Total voters
    107

gweed123

Moderator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
7,831
Reaction score
1,576
Location
Burlington
TTC has struggled to keep the Queensway trackage level for decades. Lots of different maintenance methods, all of them leading to the same result - a bumpy, swaying ride with slow spots and operators not wanting to take chances by running at full speed. It seems there is no way to keep tracks sitting on loose-soil ballast tamped down properly.

I interpret this decision as the TTC throwing up their hands and admitting defeat.

I like the grass median idea, but only if it maintains fast safe and comfortable operation, and only if track maintenance costs remain reasonable. TTC doesn't appear to have this capability.

- Paul

Honestly, I'd settle for an astro-turf like solution instead of just plain concrete. It doesn't need to be functional, it just needs to add some green in the middle of a roadway.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
22,226
Reaction score
12,457
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
TTC has struggled to keep the Queensway trackage level for decades. Lots of different maintenance methods, all of them leading to the same result - a bumpy, swaying ride with slow spots and operators not wanting to take chances by running at full speed. It seems there is no way to keep tracks sitting on loose-soil ballast tamped down properly...

Yet GO and Via trains run on open ballast tracks, at speeds much faster than The Queensway speed limit.
 

robmausser

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
3,884
Reaction score
6,069
It's a shame that that rail corridor through Scarborough (the one that the Bloor-Danforth Subway uses from Warden to Kennedy) was removed and built on. That would have made RT in Scarborough so much easier.

It even passes Scarborough Hospital, Centennial College and Malvern Town Centre.

Its like someone looked at the map, said "wow, this would be an amazing corridor for a transit line for Scarborough...better sell off the land to private investors"
 

rbt

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
7,149
Reaction score
3,264
Yet GO and Via trains run on open ballast tracks, at speeds much faster than The Queensway speed limit.

It's probably something to do with the railway being lower than the road in places and doubling as a drainage ditch.
 

Voltz

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
1,740
Reaction score
649
TTC has struggled to keep the Queensway trackage level for decades. Lots of different maintenance methods, all of them leading to the same result - a bumpy, swaying ride with slow spots and operators not wanting to take chances by running at full speed. It seems there is no way to keep tracks sitting on loose-soil ballast tamped down properly.

I interpret this decision as the TTC throwing up their hands and admitting defeat.

I like the grass median idea, but only if it maintains fast safe and comfortable operation, and only if track maintenance costs remain reasonable. TTC doesn't appear to have this capability.


- Paul

Can't be any reason why they can't have the tracks built on a concrete base, just like the on street tracks are built now, but then using grass for the upper layer instead of concrete.
 

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
8,375
Reaction score
14,797
Gravel ballast is pretty stable, provided it is kept clean. The problems start when you let finer soil material mix in with the gravel.

Astroturf suits me just fine. I wonder where the old stuff from Skydome went? It's probably in a dumpster somewhere.

- Paul
 

TransitBart

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
2,376
Reaction score
1,717
Location
Leslieville
So let me get this straight. CN and CP (and GO for that matter) have jillions of kilometers of track on - mostly wooden creosoted ties - as opposed to cement ties and cement slabs like the TTC. The CN and CP track runs through the wilds where there are no people, just leaves and bears and no one to sweep them off. And the TTC has trouble keeping 5 km of loose-soil ballast in a cement ditch level?

What on earth do CN, CP, (not to mention Union Pacific, Burlington Northern, etc, etc) know that the TTC does not? The only variable I can think of is that rail track is not normally sprayed with road salt. What gives?
 

strookie

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
127
Reaction score
46
Location
Georgetown, ON
So let me get this straight. CN and CP (and GO for that matter) have jillions of kilometers of track on - mostly wooden creosoted ties - as opposed to cement ties and cement slabs like the TTC. The CN and CP track runs through the wilds where there are no people, just leaves and bears and no one to sweep them off. And the TTC has trouble keeping 5 km of loose-soil ballast in a cement ditch level?

What on earth do CN, CP, (not to mention Union Pacific, Burlington Northern, etc, etc) know that the TTC does not? The only variable I can think of is that rail track is not normally sprayed with road salt. What gives?
It would be a useful exercise to ask CNR and CPR how much they spend annually on maintenance costs (it'll be much higher than you think) and compare that with the number of axles per day. Then compare it with TTC. I am willing to bet you'll not see much difference.
 

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
8,375
Reaction score
14,797
Do we know that the Queensway has cement underneath it? From my observation over the years, it's just standard wood and/or concrete ties laid on a subgrade. The ballast is certainly not what the railways use - or the subway, for that matter. It's a much finer grade material with lots of vegetation and soil worked in. And likely lots of sand from the roads. In past years I recall seeing a mechanical tamper used, but I don't know if this is still the case. I bet the drainage is not what one might want.
One wonders if this is another symptom of operating budget cutting, rather than lack of expertise.

- Paul
 

muller877

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Messages
1,688
Reaction score
756
What on earth do CN, CP, (not to mention Union Pacific, Burlington Northern, etc, etc) know that the TTC does not? The only variable I can think of is that rail track is not normally sprayed with road salt. What gives?

There is also the consideration that much of the Queensway was built on fill, swamp and/or the beach from High Park to the Humber loop. Regardless of concrete or ballast I hope they make sure the subgrade is sufficient for the weight.
 

Zach6668

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
178
Reaction score
138
Can't be any reason why they can't have the tracks built on a concrete base, just like the on street tracks are built now, but then using grass for the upper layer instead of concrete.
AFAIK this is how the above grade segments of the Crosstown are being built.
 

Voltz

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
1,740
Reaction score
649
AFAIK this is how the above grade segments of the Crosstown are being built.

Yes that's what I was thinking, there is no real need to have ROW tracks fully encased in concrete like the mixed traffic tracks, especially if busses don't use the route.
 

Top