Transit City Plan

[AKS]

Just doing the math here on my previous post, and Scarborough is 23% of Toronto's population in 2006. Since property tax revenues by borough aren't readily available (or at least I couldn't find them, if anyone can I can refine my estimate), it can be assumed that Scarborough accounts for 23% of the City's property tax revenue, or somewhere in that range.

I think there's going to be a big change in the new census. Many people have moved/gathered downtown and along Yonge St. and population will be increasing over the next few decades.

So needless to say, if Scarborough wants to pay for subways, it wouldn't be cheap. But if it's something that they collectively vote for, who can say no?

I don't think Scarborough is willing to pay for the subways. They just want it. If you hike up their taxes, they will have a fit.

Stintz argued there is no way to fund a subway without raising taxes, challenging Chong to say where in his plan there is an explanation of how it would be funded.

“Are you thick or what?” Chong replied, to enormous applause. “If this mayor and this council would open their minds to all the potential funding tools available we could not only fund this line but a whole network.”

Clearly, raising taxes was not an option. Chong suggested "other potential funding tools". What tools, who knows. It's like saying there's lots of gravy at city hall but Ford ended up cutting services instead. If they think the developers will cough up the money, they're living in a dream world.

 

[Paleo]

Does that mean riders of lightly used residential-area buses will have to pay a surcharge as well?

How much does running a bus with 5 passengers on it cost compared to a subway train with 50 passengers? How much did you pay for each? Can you remember the last time subway service was simply wiped out with a stroke of a pen? That's what I thought.

 

[BurlOak]

The people who are riding the current SRT would disagree with you. People don't like it and they don't like having to transfer from subway to SRT.

Would the people be happy with an HRT subway from Kennedy to STC - if it was not connected to the B-D and required a difficult connection. Of course not! Do not mix up the train technology with the transfer. People want the convenient ride and do not care about technology.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Made worse by the fact that the SRT trains are too small and not only has an unnecessary transfer but the most pain in the ass one.

I am still not convinced that the city couldn't have just brought the subway up from Kennedy and ran it along at ground level to McCowan and beyond. I know it comes down to money, but was it much cheaper to buy and build the dedicated system?

Some good archival info at http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5107.shtml

 

[Rainforest]

How much does running a bus with 5 passengers on it cost compared to a subway train with 50 passengers? How much did you pay for each? Can you remember the last time subway service was simply wiped out with a stroke of a pen? That's what I thought.

How often do you see a Sheppard subway train with 50 passengers on it?

The point is that Sheppard subway is not the worst money loser on the system, some regular fare bus routes (not just 14x expresses) have lower cost recovery ratio.

Singling out Sheppard subway riders for a higher fare is just envy, not rational transit planning. Once you go down that road, you open a can of worms, and certainly prompt more service cuts on surface routes.

 

[Rainforest]

I am still not convinced that the city couldn't have just brought the subway up from Kennedy and ran it along at ground level to McCowan and beyond. I know it comes down to money, but was it much cheaper to buy and build the dedicated system?

That option has been discussed many times, most recently in 2010 during the mayoral election. Actually, both Rob Ford and George Smitherman (Ford's main opponent) promised to extend the subway from Kennedy to STC. However, soon after being elected Ford focused on Sheppard subway; then signed the MOU with the province and the MOU emphasized a fully exclusive Eglinton - SRT line. The idea of of Danforth subway extension slipped off sight, and I doubt that it will be reconsidered now.

 

[nfitz]

PM Harper might not have a lot of intelligence on municipal issues but to call him an idiot and to lump him into the same category as George W Bush is silly

I didn't call him an idiot, or imply he is an idiot.

I said he is surrounded by idiots. Have you seen who is sitting near him?

 

[Paleo]

How often do you see a Sheppard subway train with 50 passengers on it?

The point is that Sheppard subway is not the worst money loser on the system, some regular fare bus routes (not just 14x expresses) have lower cost recovery ratio.

Singling out Sheppard subway riders for a higher fare is just envy, not rational transit planning. Once you go down that road, you open a can of worms, and certainly prompt more service cuts on surface routes.

Maybe you haven't noticed the budgets of this year and last year. How many times has the same thing happened to the Sheppard subway in 10 years?

 

[Palma]

Rob Ford said today on The City, that if he cannot get subways he will not be putting in streetcars in Toronto. So guess that means that the council vote to put the LRT at surface along Eglinton will not get built according to Ford which means nothing for Finch either then. How can he talk like this and how much of a fool is he going to look like when the LRT is built? What is he going to say in the next election when it is brought to his attention that he had said if no subways will be built he would not be putting anymore streetcars in toronto and we at that time have another 2 - 3 lines of LRT?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Rob Ford said today on The City, that if he cannot get subways he will not be putting in streetcars in Toronto. So guess that means that the council vote to put the LRT at surface along Eglinton will not get built according to Ford which means nothing for Finch either then. How can he talk like this and how much of a fool is he going to look like when the LRT is built? What is he going to say in the next election when it is brought to his attention that he had said if no subways will be built he would not be putting anymore streetcars in toronto and we at that time have another 2 - 3 lines of LRT?

A transit-illiterate person like Rob Ford continues to call light rail streetcars. When he says that, I have to turn to another channel or skip the rest of the article. He can just continue to drive around in his horseless carriage because he just seems to be a lost cause.

 

[andrewpmk]

A transit-illiterate person like Rob Ford continues to call light rail streetcars. When he says that, I have to turn to another channel or skip the rest of the article. He can just continue to drive around in his horseless carriage because he just seems to be a lost cause.

Light rail and streetcars are the same thing. If you look at the Transit City proposals you will see that the designs of the Sheppard/Finch streetcars, above ground portion of Eglinton and the St. Clair streetcar are very similar. They would have been only marginally faster, they would have had an excessive number of minor stops and they would have had similarly designed stops (just small islands like St. Clair has). They probably would have duplicated St. Clair's stupid design flaw of having the left turn signal for cars appear before the green light for streetcars. Transit City = St. Clair streetcar with modern rolling stock.

 

[SlickFranky]

Comparing TC to St Clair is silly, and makes you sound silly.

It's only used by Kouvalis mouth-pieces so they can associate TC with the problems that came with that line's construction, and the perceived injustices done to automobile traffic on that street. It's meant to drum-up support from people who get angry over St Clair, but don't actually know anything about what happened there (and haven't been there since it was completed, if they ever had been in the first place.)

If you're going to compare any existing TTC streetcar to TC, at least use the Queensway segment of the 501. It's not a perfect comparison but it's a hell of a lot closer.

 

[Justin10000]

Why even bother responding to his posts? The fact he's is still equating LRT with the St. Clair revitalization project should be proof he'll post any BS to justify his pro-subway stance. He's been posting this nonsense everywhere.

 

[Dan416]

Comparing TC and St Clair isn't silly. The TTC does it. LRTistas do it. Yet if someone pro-subway does it there's ad hominem attacks galore. Get over it. LRT and streetcar are the same in every way except the number of stops.

 

[Voltz]

Comparing TC and St Clair isn't silly. The TTC does it. LRTistas do it. Yet if someone pro-subway does it there's ad hominem attacks galore. Get over it. LRT and streetcar are the same in every way except the number of stops.

No, there're not, now get over it.