rbt
Senior Member
They still need to bring it to vote somehow.
Takes a super-majority to bring something to council without Executive Council support. If Ford is that out of sync with council he might as well just step down.
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Transit City Plan
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
They still need to bring it to vote somehow.
Takes a super-majority to bring something to council without Executive Council support. If Ford is that out of sync with council he might as well just step down.
Paleo
Active Member
It's strange to see different people argue that BRT "lite" is enough for Finch and others argue that only subway will do for Sheppard but if you look at the numbers...
Dandy Horse
Active Member
completely agree Paleo. what it comes down to is some young thing with big tits and blonde hair coming in and declaring 'the war on the car over'. jeez RoFo is a public nuisance
Dan416
Senior Member
We have to build on what we have. We have a subway on Sheppard. Ignoring that is, frankly, stupid. The extension to Victoria Park is a great step in the right direction and Ford can use private funding to extend it further.
Finch has nothing. I'd prefer LRT on Finch TBH, but at least this gives you a full Finch line, not a Finch West line.
As much as I'm wary of changing plans mid-stream, this actually makes sense if we can use those TYSSE TBMs on Sheppard after they're done on the Spadina line (especially since the Sheppard EA is already done from the initial construction when funding was cut from Victoria Park to Don Mills).
Agree on all accounts.
People seem to forget that there are 2 sides to Finch, and even if 1 is being served by LRT, that means the other is being served by a bus in mixed traffic. I'd rather have the whole street being served by a BRT than 1/4 of it being served by LRT. Because let's not forget, even before it was canned, the FWLRT was only covering about half of Finch West, and none of Finch East. So let's not pretend that the FWLRT was an immediate solution for all of Finch.
I know the argument for the FWLRT was initially that there was going to be an LRT on Sheppard East, but that's dead, and the subway isn't going past Vic Park until I'm of the age to be a Senior Planner involved with the project (hint: I'm very much not of the age to be a Senior Planner yet).
BRT on Finch may not be ideal for the long term, but it's a great stepping stone that can deliver a substantial improvement over the current situation pretty quickly. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if this plan goes ahead, that there will be some sort of BRT operation on Finch by the time the TYSSE opens, if not sooner.
As for Sheppard, I'd like to see the Federal portion of those funds go to building BRT Light on Sheppard East east of Vic Park asap, and then have the provincial funds go to the short subway extension. That way, if the subway extension falls though, at least the bus service levels are increased.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Which brings an interesting possibility: what if he falls out of sync completely and can no longer win any vote in the council, but nonetheless refuses to step down until his 4-year term is over?
Does the existing legislation allow to bypass the administrative blood clot and keep the city functioning?
jeffreym
Active Member
Yea, I was trying to get at that (sorry for the confusion). If a new garage will be well over 100M (Mt Dennis was 92M in 2006-7) then that's a significant expense not being accounted for. If the city has to purchases the buses then that's another big expense not being accounted for. And if using the FW LRT plans would save a chunk of the TC cancellation fee, then there's another 10+ million dollars.
All I'm trying to point out is that if these costs need to be included in BRT calculations if they're included in LRT ones.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Can the Finch / Yonge bus terminal serve artic buses? The space seems very tight even for regular buses.
rbt
Senior Member
Executive committee is equal votes for each member and I think anybody on it can bring forward issues. One of them would eventually begin representing the majority of council on it with interest in becoming the next Mayor.
I know there is a shuffle after 2 years for many committees and I know council has approval rights over assignments; but I'm not certain if they could push one of their own onto the executive committee without the mayor.
Voltz
Senior Member
Well building a BRT line to transit city standards is not all that much cheaper and to convert it afterwards would require the entire ROW to be torn up and replaced, possibly the stations could remain.
You're assuming that the BRT would be built in-median. If you build it as curb side to begin with, the ROW will already be wide enough (after the road is widened I mean), so all you have to do is reconfigure the centre 2 lanes and the left turn lanes.
A big part of the cost of either the BRT or LRT project would be expropriation of the surrounding land. If you cover that with the BRT, converting to LRT should be much less expensive when the time comes.
GenerationW
Senior Member
It has before.
sixrings
Senior Member
zero possibility of double decker busses?
Why would you want them on a route with high turnover? It just makes getting on and off a nightmare. They're fine for express routes like GO, but for high turnover routes I would much rather have a longer bus with more exits than a tall bus with only a couple exits.
If you want to use double deckers for routes like the Beaches Express, I'd be all for that.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
I think that the whole idea of BRT on Finch is as follows: Sheppard is the primary route across the north part of Toronto, paralleling the #1 highway corridor in the GTA (Hwy 401). I think that a subway extension east and west is needed here now. If the Sheppard subway extension is built, then Finch becomes a secondary corridor and demand will be more easily handled by buses.
The problem with LRT is that (a) Putting LRT and subway on one corridor like Sheppard is ridiculous. (b) LRT is fairly expensive and pretty disruptive to build, once it is built we are stuck with it and there will be no political will to replace it with subways even when it becomes severely overcrowded. BRT is relatively cheap, less disruptive to build and can just be ripped out and replaced with subways if necessary. Hence the fact that the Sheppard East LRT should never be revived, and the Eglinton line should be elevated through the Golden Mile not LRT.
The problem with LRT is that (a) Putting LRT and subway on one corridor like Sheppard is ridiculous. (b) LRT is fairly expensive and pretty disruptive to build, once it is built we are stuck with it and there will be no political will to replace it with subways even when it becomes severely overcrowded. BRT is relatively cheap, less disruptive to build and can just be ripped out and replaced with subways if necessary. Hence the fact that the Sheppard East LRT should never be revived, and the Eglinton line should be elevated through the Golden Mile not LRT.