Transit City Plan

[sixrings]

The only "primary" line is Transit City is the ESLRT. Every other line is part of the secondary surface network. They're a series of feeder lines that dump people onto the subways, and eventually the GO system.

As for the stop spacing, I think this would be a good rule of thumb: Every N-S arterial in Scarbourough (given that they are on a different grid size than everywhere else). For the standard 2x2km grid areas, a stop at a major intersection, with 1 mid-block stop located wherever a major bisecting collector is (usually these collectors will be somewhere around mid-block, but they may be slightly towards 1 side or the other). However, in high density areas, a 2nd mid-block stop can be added.

when we first lived at huntingwood and midland it was about 45-1 hr to get downtown via bus and subway. by the time we moved out it took about 1 1/2hr. the reason being everytime a building or a townhouse complex was built on either midland or on finch a stop was added. eventually the bus which at one point more or less was typically stopping only at major intersections started to stop at every single stop. some of the stops must have been only 100-200m away. as a result i started to walk in order to take the express bus. once you start adding in stops which arent completely necessary people want a stop right in front of their house. its a slippery slope.

 

[leopetr]

Ford realized the frustration with these transfers and that is why he went with the ECLRT being continuous.

That's highly inaccurate.

1. The original Metrolinx Transit City design already allowed for both a loop and continuous operation from Eglinton to Scarborough at Kennedy. Kennedy station design hasn't changed since.
2. However, because they were planning to run 3-LRV trains on the rebuilt SRT and the on-street legal maximum is 2-LRV trains, they weren't going to operate this initially.
3. Ford came in and demanded everything on the surface be cancelled. Transfers weren't part of his rhetoric. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had been assuming all of Transit City was surface and hadn't realized that the central 8 km of Eglinton were underground.
4. Metrolinx took this as an opportunity to upgrade Eglinton to their future ideal, allowing for 3-LRV train operation end-to-end.
5. Ford grudgingly accepted the compromise even though he wanted Eglinton cancelled and all of the money allocated to Sheppard instead.

 

[Rainforest]

2. However, because they were planning to run 3-LRV trains on the rebuilt SRT and the on-street legal maximum is 2-LRV trains, they weren't going to operate this initially.

Are you sure that such legal limit exists?

The Conlins yard on Sheppard was supposed to host trains for both Sheppard and SLRT. The only connection between SLRT and the yard would be via the street-median section of Sheppard LRT between Progress and Conlins Rd. Thus, 3-car SLRT trains were supposed to run on that section (perhaps in non-revenue mode only).

 

[Voltz]

The surface sections of Eglinton were designed with three car platforms, so presumably....

 

[Eug]

That's highly inaccurate.

3. Ford came in and demanded everything on the surface be cancelled. Transfers weren't part of his rhetoric. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had been assuming all of Transit City was surface and hadn't realized that the central 8 km of Eglinton were underground.

4. Metrolinx took this as an opportunity to upgrade Eglinton to their future ideal, allowing for 3-LRV train operation end-to-end.

5. Ford grudgingly accepted the compromise even though he wanted Eglinton cancelled and all of the money allocated to Sheppard instead.

3. Huh? I don't buy your contention at all.

4. Win-win for both Ford and Metrolinx.

5. I don't buy this at all either. I'm sure Ford's handlers realized that making the Eglinton all underground would be good public relations for them. It keeps the LRT project going while bringing the "subway" promise to fruition.

Sure, the Sheppard subway is pretty much dead in the water at this point, but I'm 100% sure they know this, and frankly just don't care. If the Eglinton subway actually gets built, comparatively very few will actually care that Sheppard didn't.

 

[Voltz]

3. Huh? I don't buy your contention at all.

I heard Ford stating recently on a interview that he had saved Eglinton from an end to end repeat of the St Clair disaster, So I do believe that he was and still is under the assumption of Transit city being an all surface plan, he also went on about it being just streetcars and went on further with more lies and misunderstandings about the St Clair project.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I think that there are still many transit riders along Sheppard Avenue East who believe that the SELRT will just replace the buses. I do not think they are aware that stops will be eliminated. I do not know if it is a case of TC not being promoted enough by the City or these people doing a lousy job not getting involved in issues that affect them.

 

[Eug]

I heard Ford stating recently on a interview that he had saved Eglinton from an end to end repeat of the St Clair disaster, So I do believe that he was and still is under the assumption of Transit city being an all surface plan, he also went on about it being just streetcars and went on further with more lies and misunderstandings about the St Clair project.

I wonder if you're reading way too much into that, just because it reinforces your opinion of him.

He may be an idiot, but he's not that much of an idiot. Well, at least not in this instance anyway.

 

[BurlOak]

I heard Ford stating recently on a interview that he had saved Eglinton from an end to end repeat of the St Clair disaster, So I do believe that he was and still is under the assumption of Transit city being an all surface plan, he also went on about it being just streetcars and went on further with more lies and misunderstandings about the St Clair project.

Ford probably believes that the speed and capacity of a transit line is governed by the slowest segments. Even if portions are underground, he can still logically raise the St. Clair issue

 

[nfitz]

Ford probably believes that the speed and capacity of a transit line is governed by the slowest segments.

I think that requires that Ford has a comprehension of the issues a couple of orders higher than there's been any indication that he actually has. Remember we're talking about someone who suffers from such a lack of intelligence that he dropped out of first-year Poli Sci twice. TWICE!

 

[BurlOak]

I think that requires that Ford has a comprehension of the issues a couple of orders higher than there's been any indication that he actually has. Remember we're talking about someone who suffers from such a lack of intelligence that he dropped out of first-year Poli Sci twice. TWICE!

It is not that complex of an idea - the same theory also applies to cars.

 

[nfitz]

It is not that complex of an idea - the same theory also applies to cars.

I still think your over estimating him.

Basic calculus is not that complex of an idea either ... but you'd be surprised how many people don't get it.

 

[BurlOak]

I still think your over estimating him.

Basic calculus is not that complex of an idea either ... but you'd be surprised how many people don't get it.

Toronto voted for Jean Chretien for 3 majorities, so I don't think Ford is worried.

About Hollywood, they always said that: Beauty x Brains = Constant.
In Toronto: Intelligence x Electability = Constant.

 

[BurlOak]

I am trying to find the costs of various subway (or underground LRT) proposals. This is the best that I could do.

YUS to Vaughan: 8.6 km for $2.6B = $300 M/km
YUS to Richomnd Hill: 6.8 km for $2.4B = $350 M/km
B-D to Sherway: 3.7 km for $1.0B = $270 M/km
B-D to STC (Scarborough): 5.5 km for $2B = $360 M/km
Downtown Relief Line (Queen): 7 km for $2.1B = $300 M/km
Sheppard West to Downsview: 4.2 km for $1.75B = $420 B/km
Sheppard East to STC: 8 km for $4.2B = $510 B/km
Eglinton Crosstown (Black Creek to McCowan): 25 km for $8.2B = $320 B/km

These may not be fully accurate, or up-to-date. Please correct me with better numbers if available. The numbers may not be consistent in that some may include cars and storage facilities, while others do not.

What I find interesting is that the estimates seem highest for the ones that Ford wants (i.e. Sheppard East and West, B-D to STC) and are less for the DRL. I would say DRL has to most complex engineering - fitting a line through downtown. the Vaughan and Richmond Hill extension would probably have the most complex bus station requirements. But somehow, the estimate for Sheppard is highest. Are those responsible for coming up with the estimate deliberately trying to make all the Ford ideas appear less feasible?

 

[nfitz]

Toronto voted for Jean Chretien for 3 majorities, so I don't think Ford is worried.

Not seeing your point here. Chretien is an intelligent well-educated man with multiple degrees. He was a lawyer ... Ford's legal experience is rather different.

Or is this an attempt to make fun of Chretien's physical disability?