Transit City Plan

[nfitz]

Suburbanites don't want Transit City; move on.

Done! Now we can stop wasting money on suburban infrastructure and instead spend it where it's going to be better used ... along Eglinton, the DRL, and all those new streetcars for downtown!

If suburbanites prefer to stand waiting for an empty bus to come ... or stuck in gridlock, then so be it ... they got what they asked for.

Now can we close all those libraries and pools in industrial parks that Etobicoke councillors keep complaining about?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Transit City is not dead. This will be a war. And I hope it comes back. And suburbanites will lose. Downtown has the money.

 

[sixrings]

I hope suburbanites get TC LRTs because suburbanites are the most likely to be drivers. Maybe not all people will convert to transit but I am sure a few who are reluctant might try the LRTs and like it. Its significantly better then a bus. Also if we dont do something to get suburbanites onto transit then all we are doing is ensuring suburbanites continue to drive into toronto causing traffic nighmares. Not improving suburban transit helps NO ONE.

 

[gweed123]

Done! Now we can stop wasting money on suburban infrastructure and instead spend it where it's going to be better used ... along Eglinton, the DRL, and all those new streetcars for downtown!

If suburbanites prefer to stand waiting for an empty bus to come ... or stuck in gridlock, then so be it ... they got what they asked for.

Now can we close all those libraries and pools in industrial parks that Etobicoke councillors keep complaining about?

Brilliant post.

If suburbanites don't want TC (hey, the Brothers Ford said so), then we should take the TC money and give it to people who DO want it. Build the DRL, build the WWLRT (or at least the section from Union to Roncesvalles). Spend the money where people who want transit want it spent.

I do get a small sense of satisfaction with people in Scarborough and Etobicoke complaining about crappy transit service, and how they're getting no improvements. THAT is what you get for not looking further than headlines and propaganda. You bought it, you pay for it.

 

[gweed123]

I hope suburbanites get TC LRTs because suburbanites are the most likely to be drivers. Maybe not all people will convert to transit but I am sure a few who are reluctant might try the LRTs and like it. Its significantly better then a bus. Also if we dont do something to get suburbanites onto transit then all we are doing is ensuring suburbanites continue to drive into toronto causing traffic nighmares. Not improving suburban transit helps NO ONE.

When I was living in Downtown I either walked or took the subway to work. Road congestion didn't impact me at all. Walking down Jarvis I was going just as fast as the people who were driving down it.

They are the ones who CHOSE to drive. They were also the ones who stuck us with Dumb & Dumber, because they couldn't look beyond slogans and their own pocketbook. They had the chance to get transit, they blew it. Let people who actually want it get it now.

 

[sixrings]

Brilliant post.

If suburbanites don't want TC (hey, the Brothers Ford said so), then we should take the TC money and give it to people who DO want it. Build the DRL, build the WWLRT (or at least the section from Union to Roncesvalles). Spend the money where people who want transit want it spent.

I do get a small sense of satisfaction with people in Scarborough and Etobicoke complaining about crappy transit service, and how they're getting no improvements. THAT is what you get for not looking further than headlines and propaganda. You bought it, you pay for it.

I dont think its fair to say that people on FINCH didnt want LRT. Thats not accurate. They didnt vote for subways they voted for tax cuts. Sheppard is a different animal. The people in that neighbourhood assume that since a sheppard subway is present it makes more sense to continue the subway vs making LRT.

 

[nfitz]

I dont think its fair to say that people on FINCH didnt want LRT. Thats not accurate. They didnt vote for subways they voted for tax cuts.

Ford made it very clear that he was going to cancel the LRT. People in this area voted for him. They got what they asked for.

Sheppard is a different animal. The people in that neighbourhood assume that since a sheppard subway is present it makes more sense to continue the subway vs making LRT.

Which ones though ... those between Don Mills and Kennedy (or on Sheppard West) have some right to be aggrieved, given that Ford has broken his promise about having Sheppard completed by 2014. But anyone east of Kennedy, and particularly in Malvern where the SRT was going to get to, got exactly what they were promised. Let them deal with the consequences ...

 

[sixrings]

Ford made it very clear that he was going to cancel the LRT. People in this area voted for him. They got what they asked for.

QUOTE]

This part of finch is not populated by the highest educated people. It is also populated by many new canadians who are struggling financially. These people are more likely to fall for the lies Ford offered.

I agree that sheppard people should be upset but they should have known there was no real "PLAN."

Im ok with a DRL but I dont see why we cant have TC north of Eglinton and DRL south of Eglinton. Find some finances through taxes tolls whatever.

 

[GenerationW]

Transit City is not dead. This will be a war. And I hope it comes back. And suburbanites will lose. Downtown has the money.

No one "has the money", it's all one city south of Steeles. The issue is who has the votes in council.

 

[BurlOak]

No one "has the money", it's all one city south of Steeles. The issue is who has the votes in council.

I see the 'burbs having more clout. Look at the Vaughan subway extension.

Much of the money comes from the Province, so they are important players.

Politicians tend to pay the most attention to the swing ridings. Downtown will always vote left so they need not be appeased. It is the suburbs that switch from Liberal to Conservative depending on the election. That is the area that is important to them.

 

[11th]

Which ones though ... those between Don Mills and Kennedy (or on Sheppard West) have some right to be aggrieved, given that Ford has broken his promise about having Sheppard completed by 2014. But anyone east of Kennedy, and particularly in Malvern where the SRT was going to get to, got exactly what they were promised. Let them deal with the consequences ...

Aside from Malvern, would there be the possibility of those east of Kennedy preferring a shorter bus ride to an "Agincourt" subway station rather than an LRT ride to Don Mills? Maybe they are on the same boat with those between Don Mills and Kennedy.

 

[11th]

Transit City should have been tweaked but not cancelled. How can we not upgrade transit on Finch West when the buses are so crowded and inadequate? It's neglectful. There are other suburban routes where riders are in the same situation. On the other hand, it never made sense to switch to LRT on Sheppard after phase one of the subway was completed, and the Eglinton LRT might not have been that reliable with so much of it above ground considering all the intersections. (Eglinton is an ideal route for real, grade-separated rapid transit across central Toronto.) The Jane LRT's construction would have been a money pit with continuous expropriation probably needed from Eglinton to Dundas and even tunnelling from Dundas to Bloor. I'm quite happy about finally getting the Eglinton subway with the Mike Harris of the day defeated and construction beginning with provincial funding. We should add on-street ROW LRT where it's needed the most, perhaps with money remaining from the Crosstown.

I think that's what those in favour of subways been wanting all along, grade-seperated rapid transit on Eglinton, Sheppard. Build the LRTs on other arterials later to feed onto the subways. If money is the issue (which it is), build them in phases. The "more bang on the buck" logic doesn't work here because subways (or other grade-seperated options) will always be more expensive than on street ROW. It only works if one does not want Toronto's subway network to ever be expanded.

An example of where the "bang on the buck" logic should be applied on: bids on the bus vehicles purchases - we compare buses to buses from different manufacturers, not buses to LRT vehicles, etc.

 

[nfitz]

Aside from Malvern, would there be the possibility of those east of Kennedy preferring a shorter bus ride to an "Agincourt" subway station rather than an LRT ride to Don Mills? Maybe they are on the same boat with those between Don Mills and Kennedy.

Much of Ward 44 comes to mind ...

 

[gweed123]

I think that's what those in favour of subways been wanting all along, grade-seperated rapid transit on Eglinton, Sheppard. Build the LRTs on other arterials later to feed onto the subways. If money is the issue (which it is), build them in phases. The "more bang on the buck" logic doesn't work here because subways (or other grade-seperated options) will always be more expensive than on street ROW. It only works if one does not want Toronto's subway network to ever be expanded.

An example of where the "bang on the buck" logic should be applied on: bids on the bus vehicles purchases - we compare buses to buses from different manufacturers, not buses to LRT vehicles, etc.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Although I'd rather build BRT on major avenues first, and then selectively upgrade to LRT when warranted/when the money is there. You can build BRT on at least 2 corridors for the price of LRT on 1 corridor. It may not be optimal service, but it's a pretty decent increase in service reliability on multiple corridors instead of just one.

Having said that, at this point I'd be in favour of taking whatever money is left over from Eglinton and dumping it into the GO Electrification pot instead. If you want to give the suburbs truly rapid transit, give them electrified GO operating at near subway-like frequencies.

 

[11th]

Much of Ward 44 comes to mind ...

The southern part of the ward should be serviced by an electrified GO Lakeshore line, since the tracks and ROW are already there. Not sure about the northern part though (which happens to be next to one of the city's least densified area - Rouge Park) , maybe BRT? since LRT would be overkilled for that route also.