Transit City Plan

[valvenis]

Eglinton's traffic problems are not just limited to the Allen Rd intersection.

Secondly - the expansion NHL team idea is highly unrealistic. The leafs and the NHL won't let that happen. They don't even want a team in Hamilton.

Dufferin has it's own share of traffic issues between Lawrence and Eglinton. Moving extra traffic there would only make things worse.

 

[M II A II R II K]

A transfer at Downsview for the Sheppard Line would bridge the 2 lines and provide a continuous rapid transit route from Vaughn to STC and make use of that Wilson Yard. However interlining it so the Sheppard trains go to Vaughn could encourage people to take one single ride on a Sheppard train from Vaughn to Sheppard/Yonge and dump crowd after crowds of people onto the Yonge Line!

 

[nfitz]

Did you wake and bake this morning?? Seriously, wow...

Eliminating Allen south of 401 isn't necessarily a bad idea. If you improve the ramps at Dufferin and Bathurst instead, it could solve some of the traffic mess on Eglinton in mid-town. It was never intended to dump all it's traffic onto Eglinton.

 

[gweed123]

Eliminating Allen south of 401 isn't necessarily a bad idea. If you improve the ramps at Dufferin and Bathurst instead, it could solve some of the traffic mess on Eglinton in mid-town. It was never intended to dump all it's traffic onto Eglinton.

It was more the ripping down Eglinton West station, building an arena on the site, and using the Allen to feed into the parking lot that I was referring to, haha.

I wouldn't be opposed to tearing up the Allen, and building TOD connected to the subway the entire length along it.

 

[GenerationW]

For the record, Toronto WAS part of York Region* up until the 1950s.

*was called York County until the 70s I believe.

To make it more confusing, for people born in Metropolitan Toronto, York County was often listed on their birth certificates well past the 50s. The idea that Toronto was completely separated from York County didn't fully take hold for decades.

So lost in the news of today was the fact that the revised transit plan will not be ready in time to be presented at the February 2nd TTC meeting. Munro says he's hearing late February or even March.

I'd assume it's because the sides are having trouble coming to a compromise.

I think it has more to do with the difficulty of matching current funding with Ford's intentions.

If you look at the documents, the Sheppard subway was really last mentioned in teh Rapid Transit expansion study. After that it quietly fell off the radar.

Miller had a mandate, a larger one percentagewise than Ford did, to build LRTs. It's what the people wanted.

Miller fought for a Sheppard subway extension in his first term and lost out to Spadina. It's what Miller wanted.

And whatever anyone thinks about Ford, his mandate as a non-incumbent against two strong candidates dwarfs Miller's 2006 victory. Not to mention that transit was a much more visible issue in the 2010 campaign compared to '06.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think it has more to do with the difficulty of matching current funding with Ford's intentions.

Well, yeah, but I think that's because Metrolinx wants to keep the Eglinton LRT in place, whereas that isn't on Ford's map.

And whatever anyone thinks about Ford, his mandate as a non-incumbent against two strong candidates dwarfs Miller's 2006 victory. Not to mention that transit was a much more visible issue in the 2010 campaign compared to '06.

Come on - that's crazy. Like in 2006, transit was a total afterthought in this election. If you go back and look at the literally hundreds of debates, transit was barely mentioned. Ford didn't even have a transit plan until the fall.

 

[lafard]

The election was not about transit. The election was about the "gravy train" and a wave of anti-incumbency. THe only reason transit came up at all was because somebody told Ford that maybe he should talk about it.

Re: Metrolinx. Eglinton is still on the table. That much is almost guaranteed. Politically I suspect that even the Brothers Ford are aware that killing that would be politically devastating. Even back in the 90s Sheppard only got favoured over Eglinton because of political favours. At least the central part, but construction of the surface segments probably wouldn't have started in Ford's term anyways. The SRT funding can't be moved, whether they move to subway or replace and extend SRT.

That leaves maybe 15% of the total budget left over. There's not much you can do with that, subway-wise. I imagine that's where the sticking point is. Fords want Downsview to STC, within 4 years, for less than $2b.

 

[gweed123]

The election was not about transit. The election was about the "gravy train" and a wave of anti-incumbency. THe only reason transit came up at all was because somebody told Ford that maybe he should talk about it.

Re: Metrolinx. Eglinton is still on the table. That much is almost guaranteed. Politically I suspect that even the Brothers Ford are aware that killing that would be politically devastating. Even back in the 90s Sheppard only got favoured over Eglinton because of political favours. At least the central part, but construction of the surface segments probably wouldn't have started in Ford's term anyways. The SRT funding can't be moved, whether they move to subway or replace and extend SRT.

That leaves maybe 15% of the total budget left over. There's not much you can do with that, subway-wise. I imagine that's where the sticking point is. Fords want Downsview to STC, within 4 years, for less than $2b.

The only reason transit came up in the mayoral debate is because a few candidates (ex: Thompson) chose to make it an important part of their platform. I believe with her, her transit plan was released within days of her announcing her candidacy. This put transit on the radar for the election, and thus the other main candidates drafted their own plans (Smitherman's came a month or so after formally announcing his candidacy, Ford's only came with a month or two left). Thompson drafted a plan because she thought it was an important issue, the others drafted theirs because they didn't want to be seen as not caring about transit.

And yes, I believe that Eglinton will remain, there's no way the TTC or Metrolinx is going to lie that die on the table. Same with a connection to STC replacing the SRT (in whatever form it ends up in). The rest of it however, is very much up in the air.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Agreed that the budget is the big concern. Also problematic (probably) is the difficulty figuring out how to finance subway extensions with provincial money without giving the whole of the subway lines to Metrolinx - the province can't amortize the debt if they don't own the asset.

My question is, if this drags on for another month or two, what are all the people hired to work on Transit City doing? How much money are we burning? There's absolutely a cost to delay.

 

[lafard]

I'm not sure Thomson should have been dismissed as bluntly as she was. She had ideas, even if some of them were unlikely having an idea person on your staff can be an incredible asset.

My question is, if this drags on for another month or two, what are all the people hired to work on Transit City doing? How much money are we burning? There's absolutely a cost to delay.

I kind of wonder though, if a major contract signed before the election kicks in sometime in the next month or so - such that cancelling TC in March will cost tens of millions more than it would if they cancelled it today. By delaying they may be raising the "sunk costs" to the level where changing it becomes unfeasible.

 

[gweed123]

My question is, if this drags on for another month or two, what are all the people hired to work on Transit City doing? How much money are we burning? There's absolutely a cost to delay.

If they're in-house, they're likely working with Metrolinx on the revised plan (giving recommendations, seeing where they can modify their original design, etc). If they're consulting firms, they're likely keeping busy by working on other projects. It's not uncommon for the same person in a consulting firm to be working on multiple projects simultaneously. Usually consulting firms only bill for work completed. So if there's no work to be done, they aren't billing.

How much work the unionized TTC employees are actually doing on revamping the project vs how much time they're logging for it is a different story though.

 

[Voltz]

My question is, if this drags on for another month or two, what are all the people hired to work on Transit City doing? How much money are we burning? There's absolutely a cost to delay.

Trying to find a way to tell Ford how retarded his dumb-ass plan is, in a way that he will actually understand.

 

[Jonny5]

My question is, if this drags on for another month or two, what are all the people hired to work on Transit City doing? How much money are we burning? There's absolutely a cost to delay.

I recall reading somewhere, but can't find a source now, that most of the Transit City consultants quit the project soon after Ford was elected as the TTC maangement told them there would likely be no more work for them.

 

[gweed123]

Trying to find a way to tell Ford how retarded his dumb-ass plan is, in a way that he will actually understand.

"You've called a running play using a hand-off to the fullback, when the defence is showing blitz. If you get back up to the line of scrimmage, you'll be lucky."

 

[Asterix]

And yes, I believe that Eglinton will remain, there's no way the TTC or Metrolinx is going to lie that die on the table. Same with a connection to STC replacing the SRT (in whatever form it ends up in). The rest of it however, is very much up in the air.

Isn't the whole thing up in the air? Ford's math just doesn't add up.

Even if you take the money from the surface stretch of the Eglinton line (depriving thousands of better service) and the money from the Finch West line (depriving more surburbanites of better service) do you have enough money left to build Sheppard to STC AND replace the SRT with subway (which would require a completely new alignment, instead of an LRT running down the existing corridor)?

Remember also that Ford has repeatedly said his first priority is Sheppard, i.e. before Eglinton. Metrolinx has said they don't have the money for both.

Maybe that's why this new Ford-mandated plan from the TTC is being put off another month or more. No matter how much they try, they can't make 2 + 2 = 5.