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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%
  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%

  • Total voters
    120
Ford's also famous for never having council support him.

I wonder how public opinion will follow if he doesn't get council to follow him in cancelling Transit City. Will they blame Ford for
not getting it done, will they blame council for revolting against the Mayor... or will Ford get all the credit when Transit City is built more
or less as planned even though he's fighting against it?
 
From the G&M

Metrolinx’s usefulness now in question
JOHN LORINC
From Friday's Globe and Mail (Includes Correction)
Published Thursday, Dec. 02, 2010 10:36PM EST
Last updated Friday, Dec. 03, 2010 1:23PM EST
134 comments

Has Rob Ford made a monkey out of Metrolinx, the agency that runs GO Transit and is responsible for transportation planning across Greater Toronto?

Consider the optics: Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals spent years putting in place the laws and financial arrangements needed to establish the GTA-wide body, which has built an elaborate long-term strategy to crack the region’s gridlock crisis.

But it only took Toronto’s new mayor a day to blow it all apart, with his insistence that the city wants subways, not the sort of surface light-rail lines that represented a key component of the agency’s 2008 “Big Move” strategy.

Given the McGuinty government’s eagerness to co-operate with Mr. Ford, the new dynamic raises tough questions about Queen’s Park’s high-minded bid to allow land-use planning principles to guide infrastructure investment. Metrolinx’s regional transportation plan “could all go up in a fairly quick puff of smoke in the next couple of weeks,” observes Wilfrid Laurier University political scientist David Docherty.

“This is a very fluid situation,” adds University of Western Ontario local government expert Andrew Sancton. “Metrolinx has no political legitimacy other than the fact that it is an agency of the provincial government.”

Even a year ago, the Liberals would have defended their policy goals, says Prof. Docherty. Today, Queen’s Park seems content to stand aside while Toronto sorts out Mr. Ford’s new transit plan, which itself is hardly written in stone. The mayor’s own priority is a subway along Sheppard to Scarborough Town Centre. TTC chair Karen Stintz says there’s enough funding for the Eglinton LRT as well. Provincial officials insist it’s going to be one or the other, but not both, and are still wondering if Team Ford has offered up its bottom line or merely an opening gambit.

Established by statute in 2006, Metrolinx sits at the fulcrum of the exceptionally complicated legal and bureaucratic relationship between the City of Toronto and Queen’s Park.

The political relationship is no less complex. Former mayor David Miller pushed hard to persuade Queen’s Park to restore transit funding cuts made by the province during the Mike Harris years. Until the mid-1990s, Queen’s Park transferred cash directly to the Toronto Transit Commission. The McGuinty government opted instead to direct new funding into Metrolinx, which was assigned the unenviable task of looking at the entire region’s needs, not just Toronto’s.

That approach made sense politically when the Liberals were riding high in the polls and the provincial economy was strong. But with Tim Hudak’s Tories gaining ground just about everywhere and a provincial race less than a year away, the Liberals have chosen to play ball with Mr. Ford in order to protect their bastion in the 416, says pollster Nik Nanos.

“They don’t really have any choice. If they don’t, they could face significant problems in the next election.”

Projected 2031 ridership

*
Sheppard East LRT: 3,000 passengers*
*
Eglinton LRT: 5,400
*
Finch West LRT: 2,800
*
Scarborough RT: 8,000

Ridership required to achieve economic viability for different modes operating in partial or exclusive rights of way

*
Bus Rapid Transit with bypass lanes: 2,000-8,000 passengers
*
Surface LRT: 3,000-10,000
*
Elevated/tunnelled LRT: 8,000-20,000
*
Subway/GO Transit: 15,000+

* All figures represent peak period ridership in one direction

Source: TTC

Special to The Globe and Mail

Editor's Note: The original newspaper version of this article and an earlier online version incorrectly identified the university at which Prof. Docherty teaches. This online version has been corrected.

Stintz says she believes there's money to do Eglinton as well. She wouldn't be saying that if Ford was against Eglinton.
 
A path to transit compromise

http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/901530--a-path-to-transit-compromise

Mayor Rob Ford wants subways and vows there will be no more rail lines built down the middle of Toronto’s roads.

The province of Ontario, its transportation agency Metrolinx, the TTC and Toronto City Council agreed in 2007 to do what Ford now rejects.

So, is Toronto doomed to a decade — or at least four years under Ford — of transit stall? Or is there room for compromise?

To reach a reasonable conclusion, read between the lines, listen to the carefully crafted words, understand the politics, and recall the history of transit decision making. It all points to a rescue plan, six months to a year hence — if all goes well.

Just what is Ford saying?

First, he wants new transit only where it doesn’t replace existing lanes of traffic. Toronto isn’t building more highways and more roads. So, to co-exist, transit must go under or over or around, just not exclusively on the existing streets. If that view holds, suddenly, SkyTrain and other elevated transit becomes part of the future, though Ford talks subway.

Secondly, Ford says he wants a subway to Scarborough. He identifies Sheppard East as his top-priority route, and his transit map envisions the Bloor-Danforth line linking with the Sheppard subway, via a subway along the Scarborough RT route.

But what if fiscal reality sets in, and it certainly will, and neither federal nor provincial government offers to fund his divergent vision? What if all Ford can muster is an extra $1 billion? Then, turning the Scarborough RT into a subway — which it should have been in the first place — allows Ford to win a subway to Scarborough. And it opens the door to save other parts of the Transit City plan.

What is Queen’s Park saying?

First, ignore the statements about how Ford’s views must be in sync with council’s and the TTC’s before the province even considers them. Of course. And they will. The TTC will be reconstituted next week and Ford followers will have the majority vote.

Since council approves all budgets, city council will have a say. But council will not stop a “study†of subway options. The Scarborough councillors will line up behind Ford, all the time claiming they are doing their due diligence.

What Queen’s Park supposedly wants is a regional plan that benefits and links Toronto, via the GO network and other transit systems, to the rest of the GTA and Hamilton. As such, the Eglinton Crosstown line is untouchable. It eventually runs west to the airport and east to near Durham, linking with GO lines along the way.

Fortunately, there is room for compromise here, too.​

There is no quarrel with the portion of the Eglinton LRT that runs between Black Creek Dr. and east of Bayview. It runs underground as a subway. Metrolinx official said Friday the tunnel will be big enough for conventional subway trains, should that be the use in the future, beyond 2031.

But for Eglinton to fulfill its regional mandate it must go east and west beyond the underground segment. Can it be elevated, once it reaches Scarborough and west in Etobicoke? There is even enough room west of Royal York for it to run off-street.

So, a great transit compromise is possible, solving the potential stalemate.​

One, salvage Eglinton, even if it means removing it from the middle of the street. (By the time construction reaches beyond the underground portion, Ford might no longer be mayor.)

And two, build a subway to replace the RT. Ridership on the RT is the closest to subway levels for any of the Transit City light rail routes.

Ford gets his subway. The province gets Eglinton.

Sheppard and Finch? Sacrifices made.
 
I got Stinz's form response almost right away - what kills me is how badly it's written. What does "Stopping Transit City does not jeopardize the Metrolinx Plan" even mean. Does she think everyone is concerned about the non-Transit City parts of the Metrolinx plan?

I finally got a response from the Mayor's office to my Tuesday email to Stintz and CCing the Mayor. Guess it was before Stintz put together the other template because I still haven't heard from her.

"Thank you for taking the time to express your concerns regarding the future plans for Transit City. The Mayor's plan is to centralize investment in underground rapid transit. The Toronto Transit Commission will respond with options and a more cohesive plan by the end of January.

We would like to assure you that the taxpayers will continue to come first. Our team is confident that the revised plan will provide a cleaner, safer and more reliable transit system for the citizens of Toronto.

More information will be available following the late-January proposals.

Office of the Mayor "

Yes, I'm sure their team, including a transportation adviser who wanted to immediately stop all funding of the TTC (and then magically all the service and congestion problems would take care of themselves) are confident in their revised plan. I still fail to see how saddling Toronto taxpayers with hundreds of millions of dollars in contract cancellation fees and wasted planning work, only to not have anything started for another several years is being respectful, but then I'm not a politician.
 
Here's a sobering thought, although everyone reading and participating in this thread is interested to a degree in transit affairs in the City of Toronto, we are a very small slice of the city population demographically speaking.

I include my self at the bottom of a scale that ranges to a top of very concerned and often (but not always) knowledegable hobbyists. The average Torontonian doesn't share your views, in fact, has never heard of you or your opinions and is very comfortable in his or her ignorance. Transit City has either no meaning whatsoever to the average citizen or is something vaguely connected to the St. Clair fiasco which is a definite negative.

The War on Cars seems to assume that the average transit rider has a choice and can be weaned out of his car by a pretty streetcar. That is not going to happen when he realises that that pretty streetcar is no faster than the bus it replaced and that Transit City does nothing more than that, replace a bus with a streetcar.
 
That is not going to happen when he realises that that pretty streetcar is no faster than the bus it replaced and that Transit City does nothing more than that, replace a bus with a streetcar.
Your logic makes no sense. A streetcar in mixed traffic may be no faster than a bus, but the Transit City lines are much faster than the buses they would replace.

Your underlying logic is flawed.
 
Here's a sobering thought, although everyone reading and participating in this thread is interested to a degree in transit affairs in the City of Toronto, we are a very small slice of the city population demographically speaking.

I include my self at the bottom of a scale that ranges to a top of very concerned and often (but not always) knowledegable hobbyists. The average Torontonian doesn't share your views, in fact, has never heard of you or your opinions and is very comfortable in his or her ignorance. Transit City has either no meaning whatsoever to the average citizen or is something vaguely connected to the St. Clair fiasco which is a definite negative.

The War on Cars seems to assume that the average transit rider has a choice and can be weaned out of his car by a pretty streetcar. That is not going to happen when he realises that that pretty streetcar is no faster than the bus it replaced and that Transit City does nothing more than that, replace a bus with a streetcar.

Toronto is lucky enough to not really have any concerns about attracting transit users - Transit City is more about moving existing riders (and would-be riders) more efficiently and reliably than it is about convincing drivers to make the switch.
 
Metrolinx seems to be pushing for Transit City via their twitter account here: http://twitter.com/Metrolinx.

If not for the provincial election, I wonder if the province would be moving to have the TTC absorbed by Metrolinx.

Metrolinx really needs to prove its relevance through these times.
 
Shockingly I agree with Royson James. Eglinton should be saved, and we can run it in ditches or elevated if necessary to please Ford. I also agree that replacing the SRT with subway is the easiest decision to make. Does that really leave nothing for Sheppard or Finch? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
If he decided to build the Eglinton subway from Weston to Don Mills and extend the Bloor line to SCC then I could buy into the plan. Those were the most valuable pieces of the Transit City plan that got approved. Alternatively if he redirected all the money to DRL I could buy into that plan. My biggest concern is a plan which cancels the Transit City route which would carry the most people in favour of building a two routes to the exact same place.
 
If he decided to build the Eglinton subway from Weston to Don Mills and extend the Bloor line to SCC then I could buy into the plan. Those were the most valuable pieces of the Transit City plan that got approved. Alternatively if he redirected all the money to DRL I could buy into that plan. My biggest concern is a plan which cancels the Transit City route which would carry the most people in favour of building a two routes to the exact same place.

I could buy into that too. But a lot of people want Eglinton to reach the Airport. Personally I don't have a problem with Eglinton being an LRT and the edges being above-ground. But I do think it'd be better if they weren't in the median.
 
I would like it to go to the airport too but the Eglinton LRT as proposed accessed the airport in the least beneficial way and wasn't funded to the airport in any case. Rarely did Councillor Walker make a stand on something I agreed with but his attempt to correct the route was something I fully supported. The Mississauga BRT should go to Kipling via the hydro corridor and the subway/LRT should go to the subway via Dixon between 27 and Pearson.
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/901530--a-path-to-transit-compromise
A path to transit compromise

One, salvage Eglinton, even if it means removing it from the middle of the street. (By the time construction reaches beyond the underground portion, Ford might no longer be mayor.)

And two, build a subway to replace the RT. Ridership on the RT is the closest to subway levels for any of the Transit City light rail routes.

Ford gets his subway. The province gets Eglinton.

Sheppard and Finch? Sacrifices made.[/COLOR]

I'm ok with that -- although it's regrettable that we'd be losing Fince and Sheppard as crosstown rapid transit corridors -- but Royson does not mention what to do with the LRT purchase contracts? Simply eat the fines?
 
And in another wrinkle, Hudak is apparently dealing with a bit of friction between the rura l and urban factions of his party.

He can't pander to both the urban and rural sides. If he has to pick a side it'll be the safe rural seats. Something like this might well change the dynamics of the provincial election and change the direction of any TC rewrites.

If Hudak wins on the ultraconservative Ontario Landowners platform, that's it. Anything not too far along to cancel is gone. An emboldened McGuinty might tell Ford to go blow himself. Somewhere in the middle would prove more favourable to Ford (assuming he doesn't crash and burn quickly) though I think the cancellation fees are a political hot potato. The province will not touch that. Ontario money is not for Toronto flip-flops. Too many nonGTA seats that think they already subsidise Toronto.

Provincial political landscape does not really favour Ford right now.
 
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