Transit City Plan

[Filip]

The light rail vehicle order covers vehicles for Eglinton, Sheppard, SLRT, and even the truncated Finch line from Keele to Humber College; 184 cars in total if I am not mistaken.

You are probably right regarding Ottawa. Their downtown tunnel will take long time to build, but once in operation, their LRT system will require a large number of cars to replace the BRT backbone.

Oh I did not know it was ordered for all lines. Well that is just shortsighted. Mayoral candidates begged the TTC and the province to slow down with this as there may be a change in plan, however they ignored it. Now they'll pay the cancellation fees I guess.

 

[Calrissian]

Oh I did not know it was ordered for all lines. Well that is just shortsighted. Mayoral candidates begged the TTC and the province to slow down with this as there may be a change in plan, however they ignored it. Now they'll pay the cancellation fees I guess.

These were in the works and ordered 2 years ago, before any of the candidates were running. They did, however, ask to slow down the bike lanes on Jarvis and University.

 

[Asterix]

I'd rather have higher taxes if it meant a growing subway system rather than streetcar lines zigzagging in the suburbs.

Which streetcar lines are planned to be "zigzagging in the suburbs"?

How many kms of higher order transit (eg surface running LRT) would you be willing to sacrifice to get one km of subway?

How much higher taxes would you be willing to pay to build much of a substantive subway system?

How do you square the spending of billions of dollars not currently planned on subways with a new mayor who promised to cut and not spend money?

 

[Rainforest]

Shortsighted is our whole process of transit planning. Our political cycle is 4 years, not enough to actually build anything, but just enough to make a proposal, get it funded, undertake design work, begin construction ... then declare a change in priorities, pay cancellation fees, and start over again. Only by a lucky chance, can a given transit line survive the regime changes and get actually built.

Perhaps we should hold a region-wide referendum once in 3 election cycles (normally once in 12 years) where a binding list of transit priorities will be approved. Then the governments will be able to expedite or slow down its implementation dependent on the availability of funding, but won't be able to swap or replace those projects unless a new referendum is held.

 

[Rainforest]

These were in the works and ordered 2 years ago, before any of the candidates were running. They did, however, ask to slow down the bike lanes on Jarvis and University.

Actually, the contract for vehicles for the new LRT lines has been placed just a few months ago.

Before that, there was an order for the replacement vehicles for the existing streetcar network.

 

[Filip]

These were in the works and ordered 2 years ago, before any of the candidates were running. They did, however, ask to slow down the bike lanes on Jarvis and University.

Actually they were ordered a few months ago.

 

[Calrissian]

Actually they were ordered a few months ago.

My mistake, I was thinking of the legacy replacement cars. I do recall now that some of the candidates did make a bit of a stink about the TC line cars being ordered. I think it was Rossi.

 

[Filip]

My mistake, I was thinking of the legacy replacement cars. I do recall now that some of the candidates did make a bit of a stink about the TC line cars being ordered. I think it was Rossi.

And Thomson, and probably Ford. I believe it was incredibly myopic to order cars and get ourselves mixed up in costly contracts immediately before an election that was bound to change the status quo.

Ford and Hudak are going to use this to their advantage next year.

 

[Dan416]

Mississauga could definitely use those LRT cars. Besides, there's nothing stopping us from using those on the Eglinton line if it was completely grade separated, if worst comes to worst and no other city wants them. We could make do with them on Eglinton.

 

[GraphicMatt]

No city in North America would need anywhere near the number of streetcars that Toronto has ordered. I guess we could sell them to various restaurant chains for conversion to roadside diners.

 

[Dan416]

No city in North America would need anywhere near the number of streetcars that Toronto has ordered. I guess we could sell them to various restaurant chains for conversion to roadside diners.

Okay I wasn't clear. Mississauga could use SOME of those LRT cars? How many did they order? I checked the figures from the Hurontario-Main LRT page and it said 50 LRT vehicles would be needed. That leaves 134 vehicles. How many does Ottawa need? Hamilton?

 

[Second_in_pie]

Mississauga could definitely use those LRT cars. Besides, there's nothing stopping us from using those on the Eglinton line if it was completely grade separated, if worst comes to worst and no other city wants them. We could make do with them on Eglinton.

Also, they might prove to be faster and more efficient than our current subways. Sacrificing the pros that may come to system upkeep from a comprehensive network, but not bad. Also, we could always just raise taxes 0.5% or something and get subways and LRTs.

 

[LAz]

How many kms of higher order transit (eg surface running LRT) would you be willing to sacrifice to get one km of subway?

How much higher taxes would you be willing to pay to build much of a substantive subway system?

How do you square the spending of billions of dollars not currently planned on subways with a new mayor who promised to cut and not spend money?

Sorry bro, but transit city had like what - 20 billion? - in funds all total.
If one can plan that and enthusiastically support that, then one can support funding subways. We do not need 20 billion right away for the subways. A couple billion here and there would do the trick.

Cheers!

 

[Calrissian]

And Thomson, and probably Ford. I believe it was incredibly myopic to order cars and get ourselves mixed up in costly contracts immediately before an election that was bound to change the status quo.

Ford and Hudak are going to use this to their advantage next year.

Oh Well.

 

[lafard]

And we're getting a subway.

The cancellation of the outer fringes of Eglinton are not that huge a downfall, but are a minor cost compared to the project as a whole.

Unfortunately Ford's plan depends on cancellation of Eglinton to pay for Sheppard and BD. In reality enough money could perhaps be scraped together to extend the BD to STC, but completing Sheppard would require sacrificing Eglinton. What's a better use of money, Eglinton or Sheppard? Probably the former.

Also, the airport connection is a bit of a political hot potato. It's probably been postponed into never-never land but no politician wants to formally declare it dead.

So, let's count what we have. We have BD to STC no matter what (or an upgrade/extension. It would be close to cost neutral, though building the subway would sacrifice the extension of the SLRT to Malvern). We have money for one subway extension - Eglinton, Weston to Don Mills, or Sheppard to STC and maybe Downsview. Of the two, Eglinton is probably more useful to more people. If we do Sheppard we might have enough money left over to build another LRT line somewhere, enough to do Eglinton's surface segments, maybe, but they wouldn't connect to anything. Finch may or may not survive; it would likely end up sacrificed to pay penalties associated with cancelling current plans. If we do Eglinton we have money for Finch and Sheppard LRTs.

You have two choices. A subway on Eglinton and LRT on Sheppard, OR subway on Sheppard and that's probably it as the leftover money wouldn't build much else useful. The reality is that more money is not forthcoming. Which really sounds better?

Eglinton:
-Rapid transit on Eglinton (+2)
-Improved transit on Sheppard (+1)
-Improved transit on Finch (+1)
-Eventual airport connection (+0.5)
-BD Extension (+2)
Score: 6.5

Sheppard:
-Nothing on Eglinton (0)
-Rapid transit on Sheppard (+2)
-Possibly improved transit on Finch, if enough money remains (+0.5)
-Airport connection extremely unlikely (0)
-BD extension. (+2)
Score: 4.5