Transit City Plan

[Filip]

Since it's the province and McGuinty's administration, wanna bet he'll do whatever he can to hold on to his Toronto seats?
He won't risk those seats for a plan that not even they created but that Miller/Giambrone came up with.

The way I see it, if Giambrone/Miller came up with subways, they would have finance it.

They won't risk their necks to save Miller's legacy. They won't care.

Exactly, McGuinty's political future is at stake here. I've mentioned this over and over in different threads - Ford holds all the cards here. If McGuinty goes directly against him (and the Toronto electorate who voted for his vision) then he can easily paint them as refusing to budge on an issue that was decided by an administration which was overwhelmingly voted out.

Hudak also knows this, watch him promise to undo TC as one of his platforms - guaranteed.

 

[Calrissian]

Since it's the province and McGuinty's administration, wanna bet he'll do whatever he can to hold on to his Toronto seats?
He won't risk those seats for a plan that not even they created but that Miller/Giambrone came up with.

The way I see it, if Giambrone/Miller came up with subways, they would have finance it.

They won't risk their necks to save Miller's legacy. They won't care.

Its not Miller's legacy, its fully adopted into the move ontario plan, and is part of Metrolinx's legacy. This is not going away, no matter how much you cry.

 

[Ansem]

Ya, Sorry Ansem, but your posts are always subway or nothing and usually pretty ridiculous at that... I wish Toronto could do subways everywhere too, but realistically, I'd like to see something tangible in my life time, and the eglinton TC line would be it...

at this point, changing those plans to convert to subway would push things way out and just not happen in most of the these forumers lifetimes.

I said many time Eglinton was fine but it should be 100% grade separated.
Above ground
The richview
Underground and VOILA!

I support it.

Eglinton streetcar stopping at red lights outside of the tunnel is beyond retarded

 

[Calrissian]

Exactly, McGuinty's political future is at stake here. I've mentioned this over and over in different threads - Ford holds all the cards here. If McGuinty goes directly against him (and the Toronto electorate who voted for his vision) then he can easily paint them as refusing to budge on an issue that was decided by an administration which was overwhelmingly voted out.

Hudak also knows this, watch him promise to undo TC as one of his platforms - guaranteed.

No, not for the approved and funded lines. He won't bother, and move on.. and if he does, council wouldn't approve of wasting the 700 millions.. and most of toronto wouldn't want that either. It not happening.

 

[nfitz]

Sorry but a 23km/h streetcar on Sheppard East is beyond retarded.

Not half as bad as building 2 subway trains to Scarborough Centre. Stop the gravy trains!

 

[Ansem]

Its not Miller's legacy, its fully adopted into the move ontario plan, and is part of Metrolinx's legacy. This is not going away, no matter how much you cry.

Sorry, but it's Miller's administration initiative and the province included it into their plan...
They did not came up with it... they just went along.

Like I said, they won't risk their necks for something they didn't even came up with but only agreed to fund

 

[Calrissian]

I said many time Eglinton was fine but it should be 100% grade separated.
Above ground
The richview
Underground and VOILA!

I support it.


Eglinton streetcar stopping at red lights outside of the tunnel is beyond retarded

Sure, I do too, but that's not how its designed and moving forward.. but it will still work as rapid transit carrying a lot of people, with room to grow.

 

[Ansem]

Not half as bad as building 2 subway trains to Scarborough Centre. Stop the gravy trains!

I'm used by now that you're missing the whole point

 

[Filip]

No, not for the approved and funded lines. He won't bother, and move on.. and if he does, council wouldn't approve of wasting the 700 millions.. and most of toronto wouldn't want that either. It not happening.

This is not about the city anymore, it's about the province. McGuinty is heading into political suicide if he dares counter Ford regarding TC. Money loss or no loss, it's a non issue for an incumbent government trying to save face after their Liberal bastion, the Toronto stronghold, collapsed to the right.

 

[nfitz]

No, not for the approved and funded lines. He won't bother, and move on.. and if he does, council wouldn't approve of wasting the 700 millions.. and most of toronto wouldn't want that either. It not happening.

Even if council keeps going, if Ford makes lots of noise, I'm sure province will back out ... no point losing points in next election.

 

[Calrissian]

Sorry, but it's Miller's administration initiative and the province included it into their plan...
They did not came up with it... they just went along.

Like I said, they won't risk their necks for something they didn't even came up with but only agreed to fund

They aren't risking any necks.. they're moving ahead with their plan. Its a done deal - designed, tendered and going into construction.

 

[Calrissian]

Even if council keeps going, if Ford makes lots of noise, I'm sure province will back out ... no point losing points in next election.

fine, then if this happens, people need to realize that there will be no substitute with subways and no more transit expansion in their lifetimes. I don't believe this will happen though, and pretty sure, Ford doesn't care about the stuff already underway as he has come out to say so much.

 

[lafard]

I'll say this for the last time.

This election was not fought on transit. It was, essentially, a referendum on whether you thought city hall spending was excessive.

To Ford transit was an afterthought. To this election transit is an afterthought.

Most Torontonians would prefer subways. But given the choice between a guaranteed LRT in a couple years or a maybe subway in a decade or more, most are happy enough with the lrt. There have been surveys and polls on the matter and that is the general feeling most people have on it.

Ford is not going to fight Metrolinx. Neither are Tim Hudak or Dalton McGuinty going to sail in on a winged unicorn and save the damsel in distress (a subway station at Sheppard and Pharmacy) from the evil dragon Miller. McGuinty took enough flak for delaying funds already, and Hudak hasn't said a damn thing about it other than some vague allusions to belt-tightening (which does not bode well for subway expansion).

If McGuinty were to scrap transit city and reallocate the money to subways, then he's giving Tim Hudak a $7 Billion deficit reducing gift. That's what happens. Ford's win tonight illustrates people are more concerned with saving money than city building and if Hudak promises to cut the deficit by cancelling transit plans, then he'll get elected on that and probably follow through. At some point, having the projects too advanced to cancel becomes a very strong argument. Unless of course, you love convoys of buses.

 

[Ansem]

They aren't risking any necks.. they're moving ahead with their plan. Its a done deal - designed, tendered and going into construction.

They are risking their necks

Polls have been showing for over a year that Public Transit was the #1 PRIORITY for Torontonians
Polls have been showing that Public Transit was #1 electoral Issue
Torontonian voted for Ford and his Plan

He has all the legitimacy to speak on behalf of Toronto.
If the province refuse, sure they can.
But they are risking their seats in Toronto.

If you believe one second people won't punish the liberal for denying them subways, YOU ARE DREAMING!!!!!!!!!

 

[lafard]

a) the libs are probably doomed in 2011. That said they're not going to start throwing their legacy under the bus because they already have a reputation for waffling and McGuinty wants to avoid that. See eco-fee scandal. oops.

b) the Hudak cons don't care about toronto. They won't win in Toronto, they don't need seats in Toronto, and if they can screw Toronto for the benefit of the rest of Ontario they probably will. Lose 3 seats in Toronto and gain 10 in rural areas? Think about that. Transit city may well be doomed with Hudak, but there will certainly be nothing in exchange for it. Except, possibly, projects for the 905.