Transit City Plan

[Calrissian]

I think it's unlikely Hudak will run on the promise of delivering transit projects to Toronto. At best, the PCs might pick up three or four seats in the city but that could be offset by what others will see as a big spending promise for Toronto. Why risk it when he's going to win (or lose) the election on the backs of the 905?

The conservatives are actually nervous that Ford is in power and worried that he'll screw things up for them come next year's election. The liberals have already cited this as a plus with Ford. Can't really argue with that.

 

[Calrissian]

Now that Ford has been elected, I think you'd have to be daydreaming to think that the SELRT won't be one of his first casualties.

http://www.robfordformayor.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Transportation-Plan4.pdf

Ford's transit plan is basically finishing the Sheppard Subway from Downsview to STC, and extending the subway from Kennedy to STC via the SRT corridor (leaving aside the feasibility of that for the moment). Both are good transit planning. As for the rest of his plan...it'll be sad to see Sheppard chosen yet again over Eglinton for subway expansion.

Ford said that if he couldn't redirect TC funds or sell off the streetcars, he'd stick with the current (TC & new streetcar) plans. And that is pretty much what will happen. He's indifferent to the transit (except for when it gets in the way of cars) so, to him, this is a non-issue.. if its funded and he can't do anything different with the funds, he'll let it continue.

Eglinton and Sheppard will continue as planned. Metrolinx and Province are carrying through with this one.

 

[Filip]

Ford said that if he couldn't redirect TC funds or sell off the streetcars, he'd stick with the current (TC & new streetcar) plans. And that is pretty much what will happen. He's indifferent to the transit (except for when it gets in the way of cars) so, to him, this is a non-issue.. if its funded and he can't do anything different with the funds, he'll let it continue.

Eglinton and Sheppard will continue as planned. Metrolinx and Province are carrying through with this one.

Excuse me, but what Ford actually said was that he was not worried about the province not being accommodating with his transit plan as going against it would be going against Toronto's electorate, and in his words 'they wouldn't want that'.

The only thing he mentioned keeping the status quo with was the streetcar contract.

 

[Calrissian]

Excuse me, but what Ford actually said was that he was not worried about the province not being accommodating with his transit plan as going against it would be going against Toronto's electorate, and in his words 'they wouldn't want that'.

The only thing he mentioned keeping the status quo with was the streetcar contract.

Again? Guy, you got to keep being wrong? In later interviews he said exactly that (leaving plans as is) about both items. You can check with Steve Munroe's site to verify it.. i'm tired of correcting your ignorance.

Sheppard & Eglinton will continue as planned.

 

[GenerationW]

Big Hint: The Elections are not unitil 2011, and who knows what may happen. Either way, the SELRT will be in full construction swing by then, and it's unlikely Hudak will try to cancel a complex funding arrangement.

It's not a question of what Hudak will or won't do if he wins in 2011. It's a question of what McGuinty wants to take to the Toronto electorate in 2011. If Ford uses his huge mandate to publicly say subways or else, McGuinty is right up against it. He can't campaign in Toronto with a transit plan the mayor and a substantial number of voters just rejected.

 

[Filip]

Again? Guy, you got to keep being wrong? In later interviews he said exactly that (leaving plans as is) about both items. You can check with Steve Munroe's site to verify it.. i'm tired of correcting your ignorance.

Sheppard & Eglinton will continue as planned.

Source? I don't read Steve Munro as the mere mention of his name makes me want to go shoot a streetcar.

 

[Calrissian]

Again? Guy, you got to keep being wrong? In later interviews he said exactly that (leaving plans as is) about both items. You can check with Steve Munroe's site to verify it.. i'm tired of correcting your ignorance.

Sheppard & Eglinton will continue as planned.

Edit, oh wait.. I just realized, you probably have no idea who Steve Munro is... you should listen to people more and talk less. seriously.

 

[Calrissian]

It's not a question of what Hudak will or won't do if he wins in 2011. It's a question of what McGuinty wants to take to the Toronto electorate in 2011. If Ford uses his huge mandate to publicly say subways or else, McGuinty is right up against it. He can't campaign in Toronto with a transit plan the mayor and a substantial number of voters just rejected.

And Ford is willing to lose the already spent dollars on these lines? in the Millions? (nevermind getting council's approval to change the plans to go back to the govt?) Not gonna happen.

The mere fact that he has made no mention of transit not only in his speech tonight but rarely throughout the campaign except when forced to answer questions or even come up with a transit plan, shows he's indifferent to it.. and with his hands full on stopping the gravy train, I'd be surprised if he even brings up transit in his first year of office. He'll have enough sh*t to deal with just in balancing the budget.

 

[Ansem]

Big Hint: The Elections are not unitil 2011, and who knows what may happen. Either way, the SELRT will be in full construction swing by then, and it's unlikely Hudak will try to cancel a complex funding arrangement.

Funny, I don't see McGuinty forcing Transit City down Torontonians throat, a project that the majority of the city doesn't want. I don't see him either telling Torontonians that their getting 0 because they refuse Transit city.

Election time = Politician will do whatever it take to get to power... Liberals are very afraid right now, since this very liberal city elected a Conservative mayor. They won't want to risk loosing Toronto...

They'll make Metrolinx give Ford what he wants so they can hold on to power

 

[lafard]

It's not a question of what Hudak will or won't do if he wins in 2011. It's a question of what McGuinty wants to take to the Toronto electorate in 2011. If Ford uses his huge mandate to publicly say subways or else, McGuinty is right up against it. He can't campaign in Toronto with a transit plan the mayor and a substantial number of voters just rejected.

Except the voters didn't just reject the transit plan. They rejected the "gravy train". Transit figures very minimally into Ford's win.

McGuinty knows his image involves waffling. Waffling on transit would be another nail in his coffin. He could just as easily wash his hands of it, just like he's washed his hands of the OMB even though theoretically he could meddle with them too. Further, he knows fully well that transit will not win or lose the provincial race, and won't kill his legacy.

After McGuinty, who knows? We don't know how Rob Ford will perform, but his performance will affect the eletion. At this point we don't even know if McGuinty will be the Liberal leader through the election. If the party throws him under the bus then it could change the game entirely.

Discarding five years of transit progress set in motion is virtually unprecedented. Anywhere. Because it's a phenomenally, monumentally stupid thing to do.

 

[Calrissian]

Funny, I don't see McGuinty forcing Transit City down Torontonians throat, a project that the majority of the city doesn't want. I don't see him either telling Torontonians that their getting 0 because they refuse Transit city.

Election time = Politician will do whatever it take to get to power... Liberals are very afraid right now, since this very liberal city elected a Conservative mayor. They won't want to risk loosing Toronto...

They'll make Metrolinx give Ford what he wants so they can hold on to power

Eglinton and Sheppard will continue as planned. Metrolinx and Province are carrying through with this one...

The dreams of these becoming subways are just that.. dreams.. otherwise, Ford would be losing tax payer's money in the millions.. and then spending MORE to try and send things back to the drawing board EA stage adding years/decades to the new plans.

So, the same deal still applies.. get these lines that are funded done? or nothing. Thats not to say the other unfunded TC lines aren't dead... most likely they won't see the light of day with no one pushing for them. (Unless metrolin keeps on it)

 

[lafard]

And Ford is willing to lose the already spent dollars on these lines? in the Millions? (nevermind getting council's approval to change the plans to go back to the govt?) Not gonna happen.t.

From the city's website ( link )

What Transit City contracts have now been signed and what is their value? For which specific components do they apply? What is the expected delivery date for each? What are the cancellation penalties (of not proceeding) comprehended in current signed contracts?

Transit City has issued contracts with an upset value of $1.65 billion (net GFST/HST) against which releases have been issued in the amount of $1.00 billion (net GFST/HST). A summary of the major contracts by category are presented in Attachment 1. Approximately 50% of the value of the contracts awarded up to August 2010 has been awarded by Metrolinx (including the Light Rail Vehicle -- LRV vehicle contract). The TTC cannot cancel or alter these commitments and these questions should be referred to Metrolinx directly. It was not possible in the time available to estimate the cost of cancelling/winding down the contracts awarded by the TTC.

Attachment 1: http://www.toronto.ca/elections/pdf/candidates-questions-ttc-faq.pdf

Excluding the vehicles (which Ford proposes to sell for full value...) and the agincourt grade separation (which was needed anyways), on the order of $700 million has been spent on Transit City to date;.

 

[Calrissian]

From the city's website ( link )

What Transit City contracts have now been signed and what is their value? For which specific components do they apply? What is the expected delivery date for each? What are the cancellation penalties (of not proceeding) comprehended in current signed contracts?

Transit City has issued contracts with an upset value of $1.65 billion (net GFST/HST) against which releases have been issued in the amount of $1.00 billion (net GFST/HST). A summary of the major contracts by category are presented in Attachment 1. Approximately 50% of the value of the contracts awarded up to August 2010 has been awarded by Metrolinx (including the Light Rail Vehicle -- LRV vehicle contract). The TTC cannot cancel or alter these commitments and these questions should be referred to Metrolinx directly. It was not possible in the time available to estimate the cost of cancelling/winding down the contracts awarded by the TTC.

Attachment 1: http://www.toronto.ca/elections/pdf/candidates-questions-ttc-faq.pdf

Excluding the vehicles (which Ford proposes to sell for full value...) and the agincourt grade separation (which was needed anyways), on the order of $700 million has been spent on Transit City to date;.

Thanks Lafard, I read that a couple days ago too, didn't remember the exact figure. Ford will shrug his shoulders and move on.

 

[Dan416]

Eglinton and Sheppard will continue as planned.

So you're saying Eglinton will be a subway and Sheppard will finally be finished as a subway? Excellent. Glad we finally agree.

 

[GenerationW]

And Ford is willing to lose the already spent dollars on these lines? in the Millions? (nevermind getting council's approval to change the plans to go back to the govt?)

If he wants to stay true to his word, then he's willing. It's his newly won huge mandate versus McGuinty's re-election bid, and I see the latter as being in a much tougher spot.

The next year should be fascinating.