SlickFranky
Active Member
Who, exactly, has made that claim?
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Transit City Plan
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
Who, exactly, has made that claim?
Rainforest
Senior Member
Good point. The Queensway ROW is actually closer to being a prototype for Transit City lines than Spadina or St Clair with their very frequent stops.
Unfortunately, the reliability of such ROW cannot be judged based on Queensway, since the 501 service is totally screwed up by mixed-traffic downtown sections.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Doesn't this scenario show what happens when you mix contexts then? Like say on Eglinton?
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Eglinton will be all right-of-way. It shows what happens when the Roads Department is against the TTC with true transit priority at the traffic signals.
Most of the core for the Eglinton will be exclusive right-of-way, anyway.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I am taking it to mean that people were claiming the building of St.Clair would be a prototype for Transit City (i.e. they were building St.Clair prior to TC in a way to show what TC could be). I'm saying that they built St.Clair to be like Spadina, not to show what Transit City could be because Transit City wasn't envisioned yet. Transit City is an entirely new entity not built based on any prototype. It will have stop spacings differing between routes, but always greater than St.Clair or Spadina, it will have vast underground portions unlike St.Clair or Spadina, will have boardings at all doors unlike St.Clair or Spadina, and where on the surface will be running through much more suburban environments. There is no proto to TC in Toronto and no designer of St.Clair nor Spadina have billed it as a prototype for TC. Only people who are anti-TC would call St.Clair a prototype for TC because St.Clair is an example of how to take too long to build, and has so many stops it can't possibly be fast.
Justin10000
Banned
^^Exactly. And those same anti-TC types love to label the St. Clair ROW project as an LRT project when it was a road-rebuilding project. A great example of what TC is emulating is RATP's T3 Tramway.
Rainforest
Senior Member
In a sense, yes.
Though the nature of problems will be different. Queen / Queensway is a mix of partial-ROW and mixed-traffic segments. Mixed-traffic segments make headways a total mess, the partial-ROW segment does not contribute to that mess but the service suffers anyway.
Eglinton will be a mixture of exclusive-ROW and partial-ROW. I think it will run reliably and handle moderate passenger loads pretty well. However, partial-ROW segments will limit the capacity of the whole line, and if extending the capacity beyond the limit of partial-ROW becomes necessary, it will cost a fortune.
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Rainforest
Senior Member
From the lines currently on the table, only Eglinton will have a large underground portion.
SELRT will have a 1 km tunnel approaching Don Mills and Finch LRT will have an underground station at Finch / Keele, but those are not unlike underground streetcar stations at St Clair West and Spadina / Bloor.
Btw, it would make a lot of sense to introduce and test all-door boarding on St Clair and Spadina. That does not require same gauge as TC, and does not involve locking horns with the Roads Department (like transit priority signals).
They do it already on portions of Queen and Queen's Quay, but St Clair and Spadina seem logical candidates as well.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
The new streetcars are going to force them to go POP/all-door boarding on all routes regardless, so they can't drag their heels screaming about potential fare evasion any more.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
It would have had underground portions on Jane and on Pape too if those routes were funded. Only those portions have intersection spacing which would cause the lines to end up like Spadina or St.Clair.
SlickFranky
Active Member
They do a version of all door boarding on St Clair during the morning rush at some of the busier stops. It's pretty sad though...they actually have a TTC employee standing at the stop, checking passes and transfers so people can board using the rear doors.
kEiThZ
Superstar
And they thought they would cut down on labour with LRTs. I would not be surprised one bit if the TTC started installing manned booths at each LRT stop.
khris
Senior Member
Well, they're going to have to do something with all of those subway drivers they will no longer need, when the service goes automated
Justin10000
Banned
Well, they're going to have to do something with all of those subway drivers they will no longer need, when the service goes automated
The trains will be manned with drviers even with ATO. The drivers wll open, and close the doors, computers will do the rest. The ECLRT ATO system will most likely be similar, where computers take over in the tunnel, and hand back control at the portals.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Then what will the second operator do?