Transit City Plan

[EnviroTO]

I think it would make most sense to have it run through the SCC and end at Markham Rd and Progress. The Bloor line should also be extended to end at the SCC. The Sheppard LRT could start at SCC, head north on McCowan, and head east on Sheppard. The SRT extension to Malvern could be replaced with LRT which starts from Markham Rd and follow its planned route to Malvern. The Durham BRT/LRT could run starting at Markham Rd on Ellesmere, Military Trail past UofT Scarborough, and Kingston Rd. The MoveOntario 2020 BRT/LRT link to Markham from Scarborough could run from SCC on McCowan, Sheppard, Kennedy, and Enterprise.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I still think the original plan is best. But at minimum the line should end at Agincourt GO.

I would say to Victoria Park at the least, but going to STC as per the original plan is the route it should be taking.

Those lands, particularly the warehouse areas along Sheppard offer significant potential for redevelopment if rezoned. The offer real potential to build residential buildings with retail at the bottom...that mixed use development that everyone keeps dreaming about.

I suppose that has the potential to happen, but I have doubts there are any plans right now to rezone and develop those lands. I do hope that it happens someday, with the mixed use high density development you're talking about. But if that were to happen, would it be best served by Subway or LRT?

Even Miller won't be defeated over the strike. I say that and I am no fan of Miller. It'll be forgotten by the time the eleciton rolls around. His potential fall would occur only if the province does not bail him out and forces him to really raise taxes. The reality is that municipal elections have exceptionally low turnout. There's a few residents who vote passionately and they tend to be rather to the left (which these days is dominated by euro streetcar fans at who dream of avenuization). If participation was higher in the suburbs, you'd have significantly more political support for subways and other heavy rail (GO). Instead, the suburbs tend to be dominated by newer immigrants who often don't understand what the municipal government does and how much power they have as voters.

I have to say, I don't agree with you there. For starters, I think that the media's done a good job of painting Miller in his true colours when talking about the garbage strike. They still don't question the lack of subways in Transit City, but they are attacking him viciously for the strike.

Also, I think you're doubting the political will of the suburbs (and immigrants!) I have pretty good faith that Miller will get booted out, and that a pro-subway leader will come in.

EDIT:

I think it would make most sense to have it run through the SCC and end at Markham Rd and Progress. The Bloor line should also be extended to end at the SCC. The Sheppard LRT could start at SCC, head north on McCowan, and head east on Sheppard. The SRT extension to Malvern could be replaced with LRT which starts from Markham Rd and follow its planned route to Malvern. The Durham BRT/LRT could run starting at Markham Rd on Ellesmere, Military Trail past UofT Scarborough, and Kingston Rd. The MoveOntario 2020 BRT/LRT link to Markham from Scarborough could run from SCC on McCowan, Sheppard, Kennedy, and Enterprise.

I could see Sheppard to Progress and Markham working out pretty well. But I'd terminate the B-D at STC, and run a Sheppard LRT past Agincourt from Agincourt or Kennedy North Station. I think the Scarborough-Markham BRT link would be best done on McCowan, which could start at Main St. Station on the B-D, then meet up at STC/McCowan Station and continue up to McCowan road to Highway 7.

 

[kEiThZ]

That seems pretty convoluted. And if you are going to Markham Rd, through SCC, then you are better off going further down progress for another 2km and terminating at Sheppard at least.....though that would create pressures to then extend the line to Malvern Town Centre. That's why I'd say its best to end at STC and to run a LRT from STC to Malvern Town Centre. If the extension was built and a LRT was built to Malvern, Sheppard East would be unnecessary. Sheppard East buses could run till the Agincourt or to STC to intercept the subway. There's not even that much traffic on Sheppard in Malvern. Bus lanes would easily provide the service needed if the other two lines were built as I've mentioned.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The only option that makes any sense is ending both Sheppard and Danforth at STC. End of discussion.

 

[Ansem]

The only option that makes any sense is ending both Sheppard and Danforth at STC. End of discussion.

And an extension from Sheppard-Yonge to Sheppard-Jane via Sheppard-Keele.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

And an extension from Sheppard-Yonge to Sheppard-Jane via Sheppard-Keele.

Or not. Why should a subway be run to Jane & Sheppard and not, say, Jane & Finch? Or ended at Downsview? There's nothing on Sheppard west of Downsview, including bad traffic, or a busy bus route, or homes, or jobs, or stores, or anything that would suggest a subway extension is necessary there now or in the future.

 

[kEiThZ]

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/tmp/lrt/jun_19/panel_discussion.wmv

Have a look at Stambler's comments in the wrap-up panel. It's quite interesting that he offers Ottawa advice contrary to what's being done in Toronto.

 

[Ansem]

Or not. Why should a subway be run to Jane & Sheppard and not, say, Jane & Finch? Or ended at Downsview? There's nothing on Sheppard west of Downsview, including bad traffic, or a busy bus route, or homes, or jobs, or stores, or anything that would suggest a subway extension is necessary there now or in the future.

I live at Sheppard and keele on sentinel road. Having the Sheppard line to Jane would drastically increase the ridership on the line.

-Jane has a very high density

-Jane bus is one of the busiest routes

-They would be connected to STC and NYC by rapid transit cutting the time to get there by easily half.

-Gives them extra options to get to the subway:

A) Bus to Steeles West to Spadina line
Access to Spadina line, Finch LRT
Useful for those living north of Finch

b) Bus to Sheppard line with choice to get on either YUS line
Useful for those living between Finch and wilson and those who need to go to STC or NYC

c) Bus to Eglinton LRT with connexion to both YUS line and airport
Useful for those who need the underground Eglinton line to get to YUS and to go to the airport
Good for those living south of the 401 to Alliance Avenue


d) Bus to Jane stn
For those who need the Bloor line south of alliance Avenue to Bloor via St.Clair Streetcar that connects to both YUS lines


Pros: With 4 Rapid transit options, this cut the travel time on the Jane bus very significantly.

This will relieve the Jane Route drastically since your commuters stays on the bus for a shorter period of time. This will decrease the amount of overcrowded bus, increase comfort and efficiency on the bus route.

How to finance the Sheppad Extension?

If you add reserved lane for the bus in peak hours, don't you agree that the Jane LRT doesn't become such a high priority anymore. If you need to dig Jane south of Eglinton, Jane would easily be over a billion dollar if Sheppard east is a billion. Maybe 1.5 billions for Jane. In short term, redirect this amount of money on the sheppard subway and have Jane change to LRT (if necessary in the future)

Et voila!

Like I said in other threads,

Poor management explains why politicians are always crying on lack of ressources for transit infrastructure. Better management would liberate extra funding for heavy rail technology. I use to be a city worker for Montreal. Since most of big city work approx. the same, I've seen mayors and councillors waste hundreads of million dollars of taxpayers money on stupid projects that nobody wanted or care for. Giving tax credit to companies that clearly didn't needed and don't get me started with corruption.

If the city found the money to pay the streetcars by redirecting funds from a less urgent project, NOTHING justifies that Sheppard east is not DONE AS A SUBWAY.

Its either lack of vision

Lack of imagination

Lack of political will

or all of the above

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^ That's a good point. If Sheppard was extended to Jane instead of the Jane LRT getting built, I'm okay with that.

I think that Jane actually has quite the potential for a subway. Existing development isn't quite enough for a subway, but if that area gets cleaned up a bit, it's ripe for development and has a preexisting existing density backbone. When (if) that development gets started, I could definitely see a Jane Subway stretching from Eglinton up to Finch.

Now whether Jane continues to be notorious as a high-crime and low income area, I'm not sure. And I don't think there's going to be any high-density development around Jane unless something big changes. I don't mean to sound evil, but I actually hope that it stays as a lower-income area, just so long as the crime gets cleaned up. Unfortunately, low-income ares don't see a lot of development unless it's spurred by the government.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Theoretical future development is a terrible justification for a transit line because development can go anywhere.

I live at Sheppard and keele on sentinel road.

All aboard the Ansem's House Express!

 

[Ansem]

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/tmp/lrt/jun_19/panel_discussion.wmv

Have a look at Stambler's comments in the wrap-up panel. It's quite interesting that he offers Ottawa advice contrary to what's being done in Toronto.

Interesting...

He just said that a ridership of 15 to 20K is good for subway technology and yet they keeps saying 30K for subway...

Sheppard East might be 5K but a complete line as a whole would be there...

 

[Voltz]

Interesting...

He just said that a ridership of 15 to 20K is good for subway technology and yet they keeps saying 30K for subway...

Sheppard East might be 5K but a complete line as a whole would be there...

When did he or anyone else say that 30k is required or good for a subway? that is it's maximum capacity, they have only said 10k is required for a subway.

 

[Dan416]

There's just something so logical to me about both Sheppard and Danforth subways terminating at Scarborough Town Centre. It just makes SENSE. SCC is a major growth centre. There's tons of condos being built there. And there's not really any points east of there that deserve a subway. And the cost of extending Danforth and Sheppard to STC is pretty manageable. And it would be all the HRT Scarborough would ever need.

 

[Second_in_pie]

There's just something so logical to me about both Sheppard and Danforth subways terminating at Scarborough Town Centre. It just makes SENSE. SCC is a major growth centre. There's tons of condos being built there. And there's not really any points east of there that deserve a subway. And the cost of extending Danforth and Sheppard to STC is pretty manageable. And it would be all the HRT Scarborough would ever need.

Really, I don't understand how anybody could think that STC is an illogical terminus for B-D, or that the SRT is doing fine as it is. I agree with you though, STC should be the final terminus for B-D and Sheppard. Other than that, there shouldn't be any more HRT. Oh, but an Eglinton Subway would have to run to Kingston Road, as there's a lot of density along the Kennedy-Kingston Road stretch of Eglinton, and BRT/LRT along Lawrence, McCowan and/or Kingston Road will eventually be necessary as well.

 

[Ed Drass]

I have pretty good faith that Miller will get booted out, and that a pro-subway leader will come in.

It could be very interesting to watch potential Miller opponents flesh out their transit policies over the next year. Will they push for a larger overall capital investment in transit, which subways would require? How might they convince the province and feds to come up with this cash, when all governments are facing severe financial constraints? Based on past performance, I don't expect suburban residents to approve of higher taxes or greater debt loads.
At the same time, what stance will to-the-right-of-Miller candidates adopt regarding TTC operating costs? If the city's overall budget must be cut to avoid deficit, what gets cut before the TTC?