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Transit City - Common Elements (Carhouses, station amenities, fare collection)

DavidH said:
TTC has never stated that LRT stations would have collector booths, so the comparison isn't a fair one. As for the ease of installation, well, the break room isn't in the middle of a roadway with the public having access to it at all times, and with it being exposed to the weather. And again, these ticket machines would be to handle perhaps 5% of of riders. At some point, budget crunches will inevitably have someone looking at whether continuing to support the old media is worth it for so few people, particularly if TTC is successful in getting the PRESTO organization to support credit/debit cards as secondary payment mechanisms.
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On a route like Queen, 5% of riders represents over 2100 users of ticket machines per day just on that one route. That's a hell of a lot of people to simply ignore.
 
DavidH said:
You're missing my point. My point is NOT that outdoor fare vending machines are impossible. I know they exist and that VIVA uses them. My point is that I doubt that TTC will bother given that Presto is coming and indeed is mandated for use on TC by the province. Outdoor fare vending machines may be seen as a waste of money when they will represent a secondary fare payment mechanism used by a relative handful of people. TTC will be better served sending those people free Presto cards.

VIVA will have the same issue come up in by next year.
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Again, the beauty of a ticket machine is that it can sell Presto cards. This is very important for people who will live far away from a subway station, but close to a TC stop. Moreover, a sizeable percentage of riders are still occasional riders that won't go out of their way to buy a Presto card and will still rely on single-use tickets. Even in London which has had the technology in place for 8 years, the Oyster card is only used on 80% of all journeys.
 
CDL.TO said:
On a route like Queen, 5% of riders represents over 2100 users of ticket machines per day just on that one route. That's a hell of a lot of people to simply ignore.
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I agree, but the alternative to having ticket machines is NOT to ignore them. The alternative is to proactively find ways to get people on Presto cards and to have Presto topup machines at convenient places (e.g. as GO will have at every train station) to allow those who do not want to use the credit-card based web mechanisms to top up. Put another way, there needs to be reasonable ways for people to top up their Presto cards with cash.

Perhaps *that's* what goes on those platforms. Instead of putting ticket vending machines, we put Presto topup machines on the platforms. That way, we are spending money to benefit EVERY rider instead of 5%.

I'm not arguing any of this from a point of view of "what we should do". I'm simply arguing that the point will inevitably be made that the TTC will be spending a lot of money to accomodate 5% of its ridership, at best, and the 5% that rides transit the least, and that there will cheaper ways of solving this problem.
 
GraphicMatt said:
If they have any brains, they'll basically use the honour system on these routes for the first year of operation (or longer). The last thing we need is operational problems due to long loading times. They can't afford a PR disaster like St. Clair where it took a month for them to figure out how to run the line well.
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There will be no choice but to use the honour system for all TC lines..... all doors will open at the same time to load/unload more efficiently.
 
DavidH said:
I agree, but the alternative to having ticket machines is NOT to ignore them. The alternative is to proactively find ways to get people on Presto cards and to have Presto topup machines at convenient places (e.g. as GO will have at every train station) to allow those who do not want to use the credit-card based web mechanisms to top up. Put another way, there needs to be reasonable ways for people to top up their Presto cards with cash.

Perhaps *that's* what goes on those platforms. Instead of putting ticket vending machines, we put Presto topup machines on the platforms. That way, we are spending money to benefit EVERY rider instead of 5%.

I'm not arguing any of this from a point of view of "what we should do". I'm simply arguing that the point will inevitably be made that the TTC will be spending a lot of money to accomodate 5% of its ridership, at best, and the 5% that rides transit the least, and that there will cheaper ways of solving this problem.
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I guess it's difficult to say without hard numbers, but is the cost going to be that much bigger to have machines that can both dispense single ride tickets and dispense/topup Presto cards?
 
Transit City - Common Elements (Carhouses, etc)

Do planning updates count as construction updates?

All these transit threads are a total mess for those of us looking for real news... anyway here's some real news:

  • A preliminary report to the planning and growth management committee on Monday lays out O.P. & zb/l changes requested by the TTC to build the new yard near the end of the 14-kilometre Sheppard East LRT route now under construction.
  • The province owns 13 hectares of vacant land at 8304 Sheppard Avenue East and the TTC has applied to the city for planning and zb/l amendments to permit a facility needed once the Sheppard line is complete in 2013.
  • If approved, the facility would include a realignment of a local stream and amendments to the natural areas designation as well as alterations to the employment lands designation
  • The plans include 2x 1s buildings and 1x 2s building. Once the facility is completed, there would be 350 employees to serve three Transit City LRT lines: Sheppard East, Eglinton Crosstown and Scarborough Malvern.
  • On the other side of town the TTC is still in discussions to buy most of the Kodak lands at 3500 Eglinton Ave W.
  • A vacant site near Jane & Finch is also being looked at
  • An alternate Eglinton site in Ward 12 is also being looked at - but the TTC is not in favour of proceeding
  • Another maintenance and storage facility is planned for the Don Mills area - but no planning has been done to date
  • The TTC is hosting a second open house tomorrow for residents and stakeholders to discuss the Sheppard facility. The meeting will take place March 10 at the Chinese Cultural Centre, 5183 Sheppard Ave E from 6:30 to 9:00 p.m.

NOTE TO MODS: Can we please have a transit thread with posts that ONLY contain real information or updates - it's near impossible to navigate these transit threads that don't really contain anything of much value (no offence to those engaged in the discussions & arguments). A simple rule that all posts that don't have hard data will be deleted would be helpful (and deleting half the useless stuff in this thread would be a good start)
 
Maybe a dumb question: For the underground LRT stations (like Don Mills) will riders be able to cross the tracks to switch sides (like you can at Queens Quay station) or will there be a mezzanine?
 
DavidH said:
You're missing my point. My point is NOT that outdoor fare vending machines are impossible. I know they exist and that VIVA uses them. My point is that I doubt that TTC will bother given that Presto is coming and indeed is mandated for use on TC by the province. Outdoor fare vending machines may be seen as a waste of money when they will represent a secondary fare payment mechanism used by a relative handful of people. TTC will be better served sending those people free Presto cards.

VIVA will have the same issue come up in by next year.
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Presto cards will still need to be verified, topped up, purchased, etc. Furthermore I don't agree that the number of riders using single fare media will be insignificant. How many people use tokens/tickets now?

Fare vending machines will actually be extremely flexible given this fact. It only takes a few lines of code and a UI tweak to introduce a new fare media and/or fare structure. VIVA will not have an issue.
 
Hot off the Metrolinx tender wire, the first tender related to the Transit City LRVs.

Interesting to see whether this will be an open and shut matter, and Bombardier will just whip up another Flexity variant that will share 90%+ of its components with the fleet they're already building for the legacy system, or whether Siemens/Alstom/etc. will make a serious push for this.
Provision Of Engineering Services Relating To Transit City Light Rail Vehicle Procurement

Metrolinx is accepting Proposals for the Provision of Engineering Services, by a vehicle engineering Consultant, required for the procurement of light rail vehicles, and for the subsequent work plan including, but not limited to: conceptual and final design reviews, manufacturing, acceptance and testing of the light rail vehicles,

Request For Proposals Documents are available online at www.merx.com, Merx Reference Number PR.

Sealed Proposals, in hard copy only, will be accepted until 3:00 p.m. on Thursday, April 1, 2010 at the Metrolinx Procurement and Contract Services Office located at 20 Bay Street, Suite 600, Purchasing Counter, Toronto, Ontario, M5J 2W3.

Metrolinx reserves the right to reject any or all Proposals at its sole discretion.

Only Consultants who possess the following experience and qualifications will be considered for award of this Contract:

The Consultant shall possess a minimum ten (10) years experience in vehicle engineering, with direct involvement in the entire procurement process for light rail vehicles, from specification development to construction.

The Consultant shall be proficient in, or at least very knowledgeable of, the following key areas:

General rail vehicle performance;
State of the art propulsion, braking, auxiliary power supply, HVAC, and other on-car subsystems;
Relationship between propulsion, braking and adhesion limits;
Truck (bogie) and suspension systems;
Wheel rail interface;
Track geometry;
Safety against derailment;
Structural & mechanical requirements of rail vehicles;
Noise and vibration;
Pantograph operation;
Load-levelling and accessibility requirements;
Automatic train operation (ATO) and protection (ATP);
Multiple-unit trainline operation;
100% low-floor light rail vehicles; and
Canadian content auditing (or equivalent American experience).
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New TTC Pass Vending Machines were seen at Kennedy Subway Station and Sheppard Station on Yonge

cimg5531.jpg
 
Are these strictly for metropass and weekly pass cards? Or are they able to dispense day passes also?
 
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