Toronto Yonge Sheppard Centre Renovations and Expansion | 123.13m | 35s | RioCan | BDP Quadrangle
- Thread starter AlbertC
- Start date
NorthYorkEd
Active Member
I think that was a misfire on the LCBO's part -- they bet on the wrong horse (for whatever reason -- maybe it made sense at the time) and now they are stuck in Emerald Park. Would have been great if they had set up shop in that large space across from the Longos at Sheppard Centre.
Wouldn't surprise me if they looked into it, especially after all the fiascos at Emerald.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
LCBO made the bet on Emerald Park’s Metro around 2012 (when Metro acquired 2nd floor during construction) likely expecting 2014 opening; LCBO was ready to open Spring 2015 (Metro refused to open & their Adonis rejected the space) - LCBO finally opened at Emerald Park almost 4 years later in Dec 2018 - probably around same time if LCBO originally went with RioCan Yonge-Sheppard Centre.
Problem with LCBO at Yonge-Sheppard Centre is most of the candidate space (your suggestion of the large space in 2nd floor office tower across from Longo’s, the large space on Sheppard, etc,... ) is the lack of adequate freight elevators & corridor from Loading Bay to the candidate space. Have you ever seen ShoppersDrugMart load in freight? Longo’s & Winners have good access to loading bay.
Anyways,.... LCBO current lease with Metro (2nd floor landlord) at EmeraldPark expires at end of 2033 (14 more years),.... but I wouldn’t rule out an LCBO at Yonge-Sheppard Centre much sooner since potentially new factors may come into play soon,.... maybe clearer picture by year end or early next year?
DB13
New Member
The LCBO at Emerald Park is nice, but the building itself is a bit of a dump. The stairway from the subway is filthy, there's an exterior entrance door that has been boarded up with wood for months, and the accessibility button doesn't work on the remaining door. So many of the stores lack both customers and merchandise that I can't help but wonder how many are fronts for money laundering.
All this to say that the LCBO would have made a better choice with the Yonge-Sheppard Centre. Even if it was a smallish location.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Here, Yonge-Sheppard Centre is all owned & controlled by RioCan, that's a typical mall model - where one entity can try to create (or redirect as they're trying to do now) a mall theme (high-end/discount, fashion/food, regional/community, urban/suburban/country, etc,..); but those individually owned Pacific Mall type cubical retail units at Emerald Park are a different beast - tougher to control under common goal, co-operation, objective, theme, etc,..
Office-Condos at Tridel HullmarkCentre are mostly owned by "foreign oversea investors" with no intention of opening or renting out the office-condo space; thus, 5 years later 2/3 of those office space remains un-occupied as empty concrete shells! hints at money-laundering
Hullmark Centre | 167.94m | 45s | Tridel | Kirkor
Friday: North York by Marcus Mitanis, on Flickr North York by Marcus Mitanis, on Flickr
Shortly after EmeraldPark opened, I examined the property records of Emerald Park's Pacific Mall type cubical retail units:
- the vast majority were registered under Chinese names (many brought in 2009 when Loblaw's T&T was to be anchor)
- multiple adjacent units usually at the corners are under common ownership (IE: Previously, I mentioned 4 Yonge frontage units at northeast corner, each unit originally cost around $1million now likely $2million per unit, there's 4 large units - yet registered to an accountant living in a Richmond Hill townhouse driving a Toyota Corolla - that's a "Local Signature"; real owner in mainland China (money laundering?). Tim Horton's is tenant who hand to rent all 4 units to get the 3 they wanted & sublet one to Vape shop.)
- most of the non-corner units are individually owned, many seems to be small investors who believed T&T would anchor - some even set up their own shop in hope of minimizing their lost
Most of the stores that operate at Emerald Park are tenants renting the unit; due to lack of foot traffic - most are likely not profitable & will likely close within 2-3 years (not exactly a good money-laundering strategy!),... and they'll be immediately replaced by another mom&pop shop! Why? Emerald Park's Pacific Mall type cubical retail mall has no vacancy - we've been seeing the same high turnover & zero-vacancy at nearby Northtown Plaza. I strongly suspect many of these mom&pop shop owners are in various Investor Immigration / Owner Operator LMIA (Labour Market Impact Assessment) program to get Permanent Residency / Canadian Citizenship; they're willing to take a financial lost for 2-3 years terms of these programs - their primary objective is immigration not financial gain.
Here, at Yonge-Sheppard Centre - we've seen brand name chains/franchise like Potbelly Sandwich Shop & Mo's Golden Pretzel bail within a year when outlook remain unprofitable.
Objective of money-laundering is to clean/hide dirty money into legitimate assets and,.... preserve capital (real estate usually does that). Renting to open up a mom&pop shop at EmeraldPark isn't always the best strategy to preserve capital.
constructo
Active Member
RETAIL UPDATE:
Another retailer is placing a bet at the Sheppard Centre but in this case I think Riocan is getting desperate to fill the empty units and collect the monthly income. It's certainly not part of Riocan's stated goals of finding an attractive mix of stores that will bring people in to spend time and money shopping and eating. The store called "Shungite Healthy Living" will be next to Copper Branch in the recessed court area and according to their website, they sell Shungite stones for $175.00 per pound and make various medical claims (unsupported, unfounded, no references) that the stones will "energize, detox your body, it improves your overall immune system and could be used to treat various diseases." I think they'd be a better fit in an old strip mall or flea market.
If this is Riocan's new direction, the future of the Sheppard Centre looks bad. Remember the old mall and its empty units. Rugs, books, toys. clothing; here today, gone tomorrow. I went to the food court on Saturday afternoon and it was deserted. Freshii and Potatopia were closed; not a good look. Who's next to bail?
Another retailer is placing a bet at the Sheppard Centre but in this case I think Riocan is getting desperate to fill the empty units and collect the monthly income. It's certainly not part of Riocan's stated goals of finding an attractive mix of stores that will bring people in to spend time and money shopping and eating. The store called "Shungite Healthy Living" will be next to Copper Branch in the recessed court area and according to their website, they sell Shungite stones for $175.00 per pound and make various medical claims (unsupported, unfounded, no references) that the stones will "energize, detox your body, it improves your overall immune system and could be used to treat various diseases." I think they'd be a better fit in an old strip mall or flea market.
If this is Riocan's new direction, the future of the Sheppard Centre looks bad. Remember the old mall and its empty units. Rugs, books, toys. clothing; here today, gone tomorrow. I went to the food court on Saturday afternoon and it was deserted. Freshii and Potatopia were closed; not a good look. Who's next to bail?
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's madness. Then again, pharmacies sell naturopathic remedies to sick people even though they're 99.99% inert and 100% useless. Quackery is alive and well
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
Sounds like a downmarket version of GOOP ?
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
RioCan's vision of YongeSheppardCentre isn't materializing because a couple years ago during construction the retail market tanked due to on-line shopping,.... I have no idea what exactly this Shungite stuff is,... but it seems much cheaper online on amazon! https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=Shungite&ref=nb_sb_noss_2
This Shungite shop seems more appropriate for,... EmeraldPark,... maybe if they also sells beads since there doesn't seem to be any bead shops nearby (it's a girl hobby thing)
constructo
Active Member
It's a scam to take your money and there are enough gullible people to keep the scam going. Health Canada and FDA would be interested in reading all the phony health claims being made such as protecting you from disease. A single pendant stone may be cheap on Amazon but 2 other vendors are selling a handful of loose stones (10-15 gm.) for $48. ($1440. per pound) and 100 gm. for $66.46 ($299.07 per pound) I'll give you some "magic" stones free.
Justatorontonian
New Member
I work at Flock in the mall with frontage on Yonge and this is entirely true about the brand names. I trained at the one on Richmond where they avg $7000 during a weekday. Whereas at Sheppard, we avg 1200, maybe, 1500 on a week day. Now obviously Yonge/Sheppard doesn't have the same density as Bay and Richmond but I can't help but feel that the discrepancy is very troubling. Should I be looking for a new way to myself through university?Here, Yonge-Sheppard Centre is all owned & controlled by RioCan, that's a typical mall model - where one entity can try to create (or redirect as they're trying to do now) a mall theme (high-end/discount, fashion/food, regional/community, urban/suburban/country, etc,..); but those individually owned Pacific Mall type cubical retail units at Emerald Park are a different beast - tougher to control under common goal, co-operation, objective, theme, etc,..
Office-Condos at Tridel HullmarkCentre are mostly owned by "foreign oversea investors" with no intention of opening or renting out the office-condo space; thus, 5 years later 2/3 of those office space remains un-occupied as empty concrete shells! hints at money-laundering
Hullmark Centre | 167.94m | 45s | Tridel | Kirkor
Friday: North York by Marcus Mitanis, on Flickr North York by Marcus Mitanis, on Flickrurbantoronto.ca
Shortly after EmeraldPark opened, I examined the property records of Emerald Park's Pacific Mall type cubical retail units:
- the vast majority were registered under Chinese names (many brought in 2009 when Loblaw's T&T was to be anchor)
- multiple adjacent units usually at the corners are under common ownership (IE: Previously, I mentioned 4 Yonge frontage units at northeast corner, each unit originally cost around $1million now likely $2million per unit, there's 4 large units - yet registered to an accountant living in a Richmond Hill townhouse driving a Toyota Corolla - that's a "Local Signature"; real owner in mainland China (money laundering?). Tim Horton's is tenant who hand to rent all 4 units to get the 3 they wanted & sublet one to Vape shop.)
- most of the non-corner units are individually owned, many seems to be small investors who believed T&T would anchor - some even set up their own shop in hope of minimizing their lost
Most of the stores that operate at Emerald Park are tenants renting the unit; due to lack of foot traffic - most are likely not profitable & will likely close within 2-3 years (not exactly a good money-laundering strategy!),... and they'll be immediately replaced by another mom&pop shop! Why? Emerald Park's Pacific Mall type cubical retail mall has no vacancy - we've been seeing the same high turnover & zero-vacancy at nearby Northtown Plaza. I strongly suspect many of these mom&pop shop owners are in various Investor Immigration / Owner Operator LMIA (Labour Market Impact Assessment) program to get Permanent Residency / Canadian Citizenship; they're willing to take a financial lost for 2-3 years terms of these programs - their primary objective is immigration not financial gain.
Here, at Yonge-Sheppard Centre - we've seen brand name chains/franchise like Potbelly Sandwich Shop & Mo's Golden Pretzel bail within a year when outlook remain unprofitable.
Objective of money-laundering is to clean/hide dirty money into legitimate assets and,.... preserve capital (real estate usually does that). Renting to open up a mom&pop shop at EmeraldPark isn't always the best strategy to preserve capital.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It's really interesting to me how apparently over-retailed NYCC is. Is it because the high office vacancy rates and its reputation as a "Back office" (I.e. not as many high flying corporate accounts), or what? The density is quite high it always seems with a healthy mix of office and retail, why does it struggle so much?
I wonder if the Yonge Subway extension will help much. It'll certainly make the area a bit more accessible.
I wonder if the Yonge Subway extension will help much. It'll certainly make the area a bit more accessible.
taal
Senior Member
So I'd argue the office vacancy isn't that high ... yes it's probably struggled the most compared to all the high density nodes in the GTA ... because most firms that are here often would rather locate downtown (and the cost, while more, isn't that much more) ... whereas VCC and Markham Center have the advantage of being somewhat cheaper ... but still, it's sub 10% vacancy ...
In terms of over-retailed ... I dunno, there's very little vacancy on Yonge proper (there's a lot more if you look around at say Yonge and Eglinton north of Yonge ... and likely even downtown to be honest ...
Long way of saying "struggle so much" doesn't really add up to me ... yes maybe some particular forms of retail seem to struggle, but many others seem to succeed !
In terms of over-retailed ... I dunno, there's very little vacancy on Yonge proper (there's a lot more if you look around at say Yonge and Eglinton north of Yonge ... and likely even downtown to be honest ...
Long way of saying "struggle so much" doesn't really add up to me ... yes maybe some particular forms of retail seem to struggle, but many others seem to succeed !
BucketOfBolts
New Member
I saw that RioCan is hosting a "block party" on October 17th to celebrate the Yonge/Sheppard project completion: RioCan to celebrate $300 million Yonge Sheppard Centre rehab .
No word on any freebies or deals but I suppose we'll see. Based on the postings here they are probably really trying to drum up marketing and promotional interest in the space and I'm sure they expect an event like this might help.
No word on any freebies or deals but I suppose we'll see. Based on the postings here they are probably really trying to drum up marketing and promotional interest in the space and I'm sure they expect an event like this might help.
Kenojuak
Active Member
Who or what is Adonis?