Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Ohh, I see it now. Sorry bout that 
Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
I don't think it's that the subway extension will "make" the area more pedestrian friendly. It's rather that it will facilitate pedestrian-friendly/transit-oriented development that York Region (and RH, V and Mkm) have in the works.
They can't allow 30-storey skyscrapers if there isn't major public transit infrastructure around.
Maybe it's a bit of a chicken-egg question but there is no question that pedestrian friendliness and the subway are directly related when it comes to York Region.
They can't allow 30-storey skyscrapers if there isn't major public transit infrastructure around.
Maybe it's a bit of a chicken-egg question but there is no question that pedestrian friendliness and the subway are directly related when it comes to York Region.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Yes, it will make it more friendly. More people walking will stimulate other people to walk, could greatly change the nature of the retail, will change the way drivers behave around intersections, it'll prompt better snow removal, etc. All of this is true even if people are walking through parking lots and along mud paths to get to the subway and none of it requires additional development.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Yeah, I agree more here. A subway isn't needed for an area to be pedestrian-friendly, nor will it necessarily make a place pedestrian friendly. What it will do is make it a much easier job to create transit-dependent, pedestrian-friendly development and communities.
canarob
Senior Member
From:
Town of Markham
DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE
Meeting No. 31
PROCESS TO BUILD THE YONGE SUBWAY
EXTENSION USING ALTERNATIVE FINANCING
OVER A 50 YEAR TIME HORIZON
(5.10) A. Brown, ext. 7507
Note: At the Council meeting held September 29, 2009, Council requested the motion listed below be referred to the November 3, 2009 Development Services Committee meeting for consideration.
Whereas on June 15th 2007, the Honourable Dalton McGuinty Premier of the Province of Ontario and the Honourable Donna Cansfield then Minister of Transportation made a joint announcement “Move Ontario 2020â€; and,
Whereas this joint announcement stated “The Ontario Government is launching a multi-year $17.5 million rapid transit action plan for the Greater Toronto Area and Hamilton that will deliver jobs and investment by reducing congestionâ€; and,
Whereas the Premier also stated “Tackling gridlock is one of the most important things we can do to build a strong and prosperous economy†and “Building a modern rapid transit system that moves people and goods quickly and efficiently will ensure we can attract and keep thousands of good high-paying jobsâ€; and,
Whereas the Premier also stated “The time to make this sort of ambitious but realistic investment is now. Our economy demands itâ€; and,
Whereas the Premier went on to say “What is more, our families deserve it, because gridlock not only saps strength out of our economy, it steals time from our familiesâ€; and,
Whereas the projects listed as priorities in the Premier’s announcement included the extension of the “Yonge Subway line to Highway 7â€, “Expanded express bus service across Highway 407†and Toronto’s Transit City vision for light rail across the city; and,
Whereas Transportation Minister Donna Cansfield said the projects will be built over the next 12 years and financed over 50 years; and,
Whereas the Premier stated that “The GTA is one of the fastest growing regions in North America, increasing its population by approximately 100,000 people – and 50,000 cars – every year. Commuting in the GTA currently takes 32 per cent longer than it would in free-flowing conditions. The economic cost of congestion in the GTA is 6 billion per years, this will rise to $15 billion in 12-15 years if action is not taken nowâ€; and,
Whereas recent transit initiative announcements by the Premier go a long way to achieving the “Move Ontario 2020†vision; and,
Whereas the Region of York immediately after the June 15th 2007 “Move Ontario 2020†announcement began the Environment Assessment for the Yonge Subway Extension at its cost to assist the Province in meeting its defined needs; and,
Whereas the Minister of the Environment has approved the Environment Assessment, leaving the Subway extension virtually shovel-ready; and,
Whereas the Town of Markham has completed a Transit Oriented Secondary Plan calling for in excess of 1,000 people and jobs per hectare (15,000 dwelling units and 20,000 full time jobs on 45 hectares) and the Town of Richmond is completing a Secondary Plans for a major Transit Oriented Development, both at the Richmond Hill/Langstaff Gateway; and,
Whereas a platform capacity problem has been identified at the Bloor Yonge Subway Stations and whereas the large building slated for development on the Southeast Corner of Yonge and Bloor has been put on hold, this would be an ideal time to begin construction to expand the capacity of the stations; and,
Whereas the funding to VIVA for Yonge Street and Highway 7 Bus Rapid Transit is appreciated, there is the one noticeable gap, being the Yonge Street Subway extension, which leaves buses in mixed traffic and gridlock from Highway 7 to Finch Ave; and,
Whereas the Province of Ontario is in a position that is not equal in many places in the world that is to have a made in Ontario Subway Solution: the tunnel boring machine, the rails, and subway cars are made in Ontario, the funding can be from Ontario sources and the leading engineers for subways are Ontario engineers, Ontario architects can design all stations and this province has some of the best contractors in the world;
Now therefore be it resolved:
1) That the Honourable Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario be requested to initiate the public process to implement the alternate financing method for the immediate Finance, Design, Build for the Yonge Subway Extension and the Yonge Bloor platform modification project and implement value engineering to study cost reductions; and,
2) That the environmental assessment be modified to leave the subway alignment on Yonge Street at Richmond Hill Centre; and that consideration be given to a 1.0 kilometre extension to 16th Avenue and Yonge Street.
15. WORLD CLASS TRANSPORTATION AND ECONOMIC No attachment
EXPERTS TO DETERMINE THE BEST HIGH-SPEED
TECHNOLOGY TO BE USED FOR THE 407 TRANSITWAY
(5.10) A. Brown, ext. 7507
Note: At the Council meeting held September 29, 2009, Council requested the motion listed below be referred to the November 3, 2009 Development Services Committee meeting for consideration.
1) That the Premier create a panel of world class transportation and economic experts to determine the best High-Speed Technology to be used for the 407 Transitway (i.e Iron Wheel or MegLev etc); and,
2) That the Expert Panel prepare a methodology for Expressions of Interest to Design, Build, Finance, Administrate and Operate the 407 Transitway for 50 years horizon and beyond; and,
3) That the Expression of Interest includes consideration of:
- Design of the 407 Transitway for maximum speed and efficiency.
- Options that could include an elevated track.
- Station locations that generally be not less than 4 kilometres apart.
- Major anchor hubs that incorporate Transit Oriented Development.
- That the railbed be as direct as possible and not incorporate Texas T’s.
- That the railbed shall be environmentally friendly and practical.
- The 407 Transitway being the highest order of transit and generally remain in the 407 right-of-way.
- electrified transit rail (renewable energy based).
- The 407 Transitway Design options integrate with the Windsor/Montreal high-speed train; and,
4) That the Environment assessment should be based on a transit solution that extends 50 years and beyond; and,
5) That an initial transitway line be installed between Cornell/Markham and Highway 403/407. (This corridor crosses seven GO-Transit lines, three light rail lines (LRT) and two subway lines); and further,
6) That the Honourable Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario be requested to initiate a process to expedite the planning, design, implementation and construction of the 407 Transitway, which is the most strategic transit infrastructure joining all communities in the GTA mega-region. This will give access to the 100s of thousands of jobs and residences in the 407 corridor.
16. TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT (TOD) No attachment
STUDY ALONG THE 407 CORRIDOR FOR THE
PURPOSE OF IDENTIFYING THE
REAL DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL
(5.10) A. Brown, ext. 7507
Note: At the Council meeting held September 29, 2009, Council requested the motion listed below be referred to the November 3, 2009 Development Services Committee meeting for consideration.
1) That the Government of Ontario through the Growth Secretariat undertake a comprehensive Transit Oriented Development (TOD) study along the 407 corridor for the purpose of identifying the real development potential, to optimize transit ridership and based on the best high-speed rail transit network solutions (Utilizing a 50 year horizon and beyond); and,
2) That the study be undertaken by an world-class expert team selected by the province and,
3) That the study include the following:
- All planned 407 Rail Transit Stops.
- All GO-Transit stops upstream and downstream from the 407 Transitway
- All Light Rail Transit (LRT) lines that cross the 407 Transitway and include all their upstream and downstream station stops.
- All Subway extensions that cross the 407 Transitway and include all planned station stops.
- Transit Oriented Development potential within walking radius of each station and of each feeder station; and,
4) That the study be based on the development potential for the 407 corridor for a 50 year time horizon and beyond and not the current 20 year community plans; and further,
5) That the Honourable Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario be requested to immediately commence and complete the 407 Corridor Transit Orientated Development Study.
Town of Markham
DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE
Meeting No. 31
PROCESS TO BUILD THE YONGE SUBWAY
EXTENSION USING ALTERNATIVE FINANCING
OVER A 50 YEAR TIME HORIZON
(5.10) A. Brown, ext. 7507
Note: At the Council meeting held September 29, 2009, Council requested the motion listed below be referred to the November 3, 2009 Development Services Committee meeting for consideration.
Whereas on June 15th 2007, the Honourable Dalton McGuinty Premier of the Province of Ontario and the Honourable Donna Cansfield then Minister of Transportation made a joint announcement “Move Ontario 2020â€; and,
Whereas this joint announcement stated “The Ontario Government is launching a multi-year $17.5 million rapid transit action plan for the Greater Toronto Area and Hamilton that will deliver jobs and investment by reducing congestionâ€; and,
Whereas the Premier also stated “Tackling gridlock is one of the most important things we can do to build a strong and prosperous economy†and “Building a modern rapid transit system that moves people and goods quickly and efficiently will ensure we can attract and keep thousands of good high-paying jobsâ€; and,
Whereas the Premier also stated “The time to make this sort of ambitious but realistic investment is now. Our economy demands itâ€; and,
Whereas the Premier went on to say “What is more, our families deserve it, because gridlock not only saps strength out of our economy, it steals time from our familiesâ€; and,
Whereas the projects listed as priorities in the Premier’s announcement included the extension of the “Yonge Subway line to Highway 7â€, “Expanded express bus service across Highway 407†and Toronto’s Transit City vision for light rail across the city; and,
Whereas Transportation Minister Donna Cansfield said the projects will be built over the next 12 years and financed over 50 years; and,
Whereas the Premier stated that “The GTA is one of the fastest growing regions in North America, increasing its population by approximately 100,000 people – and 50,000 cars – every year. Commuting in the GTA currently takes 32 per cent longer than it would in free-flowing conditions. The economic cost of congestion in the GTA is 6 billion per years, this will rise to $15 billion in 12-15 years if action is not taken nowâ€; and,
Whereas recent transit initiative announcements by the Premier go a long way to achieving the “Move Ontario 2020†vision; and,
Whereas the Region of York immediately after the June 15th 2007 “Move Ontario 2020†announcement began the Environment Assessment for the Yonge Subway Extension at its cost to assist the Province in meeting its defined needs; and,
Whereas the Minister of the Environment has approved the Environment Assessment, leaving the Subway extension virtually shovel-ready; and,
Whereas the Town of Markham has completed a Transit Oriented Secondary Plan calling for in excess of 1,000 people and jobs per hectare (15,000 dwelling units and 20,000 full time jobs on 45 hectares) and the Town of Richmond is completing a Secondary Plans for a major Transit Oriented Development, both at the Richmond Hill/Langstaff Gateway; and,
Whereas a platform capacity problem has been identified at the Bloor Yonge Subway Stations and whereas the large building slated for development on the Southeast Corner of Yonge and Bloor has been put on hold, this would be an ideal time to begin construction to expand the capacity of the stations; and,
Whereas the funding to VIVA for Yonge Street and Highway 7 Bus Rapid Transit is appreciated, there is the one noticeable gap, being the Yonge Street Subway extension, which leaves buses in mixed traffic and gridlock from Highway 7 to Finch Ave; and,
Whereas the Province of Ontario is in a position that is not equal in many places in the world that is to have a made in Ontario Subway Solution: the tunnel boring machine, the rails, and subway cars are made in Ontario, the funding can be from Ontario sources and the leading engineers for subways are Ontario engineers, Ontario architects can design all stations and this province has some of the best contractors in the world;
Now therefore be it resolved:
1) That the Honourable Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario be requested to initiate the public process to implement the alternate financing method for the immediate Finance, Design, Build for the Yonge Subway Extension and the Yonge Bloor platform modification project and implement value engineering to study cost reductions; and,
2) That the environmental assessment be modified to leave the subway alignment on Yonge Street at Richmond Hill Centre; and that consideration be given to a 1.0 kilometre extension to 16th Avenue and Yonge Street.
15. WORLD CLASS TRANSPORTATION AND ECONOMIC No attachment
EXPERTS TO DETERMINE THE BEST HIGH-SPEED
TECHNOLOGY TO BE USED FOR THE 407 TRANSITWAY
(5.10) A. Brown, ext. 7507
Note: At the Council meeting held September 29, 2009, Council requested the motion listed below be referred to the November 3, 2009 Development Services Committee meeting for consideration.
1) That the Premier create a panel of world class transportation and economic experts to determine the best High-Speed Technology to be used for the 407 Transitway (i.e Iron Wheel or MegLev etc); and,
2) That the Expert Panel prepare a methodology for Expressions of Interest to Design, Build, Finance, Administrate and Operate the 407 Transitway for 50 years horizon and beyond; and,
3) That the Expression of Interest includes consideration of:
- Design of the 407 Transitway for maximum speed and efficiency.
- Options that could include an elevated track.
- Station locations that generally be not less than 4 kilometres apart.
- Major anchor hubs that incorporate Transit Oriented Development.
- That the railbed be as direct as possible and not incorporate Texas T’s.
- That the railbed shall be environmentally friendly and practical.
- The 407 Transitway being the highest order of transit and generally remain in the 407 right-of-way.
- electrified transit rail (renewable energy based).
- The 407 Transitway Design options integrate with the Windsor/Montreal high-speed train; and,
4) That the Environment assessment should be based on a transit solution that extends 50 years and beyond; and,
5) That an initial transitway line be installed between Cornell/Markham and Highway 403/407. (This corridor crosses seven GO-Transit lines, three light rail lines (LRT) and two subway lines); and further,
6) That the Honourable Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario be requested to initiate a process to expedite the planning, design, implementation and construction of the 407 Transitway, which is the most strategic transit infrastructure joining all communities in the GTA mega-region. This will give access to the 100s of thousands of jobs and residences in the 407 corridor.
16. TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT (TOD) No attachment
STUDY ALONG THE 407 CORRIDOR FOR THE
PURPOSE OF IDENTIFYING THE
REAL DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL
(5.10) A. Brown, ext. 7507
Note: At the Council meeting held September 29, 2009, Council requested the motion listed below be referred to the November 3, 2009 Development Services Committee meeting for consideration.
1) That the Government of Ontario through the Growth Secretariat undertake a comprehensive Transit Oriented Development (TOD) study along the 407 corridor for the purpose of identifying the real development potential, to optimize transit ridership and based on the best high-speed rail transit network solutions (Utilizing a 50 year horizon and beyond); and,
2) That the study be undertaken by an world-class expert team selected by the province and,
3) That the study include the following:
- All planned 407 Rail Transit Stops.
- All GO-Transit stops upstream and downstream from the 407 Transitway
- All Light Rail Transit (LRT) lines that cross the 407 Transitway and include all their upstream and downstream station stops.
- All Subway extensions that cross the 407 Transitway and include all planned station stops.
- Transit Oriented Development potential within walking radius of each station and of each feeder station; and,
4) That the study be based on the development potential for the 407 corridor for a 50 year time horizon and beyond and not the current 20 year community plans; and further,
5) That the Honourable Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario be requested to immediately commence and complete the 407 Corridor Transit Orientated Development Study.
nfitz
Superstar
Oh boy ... I guess that's why they call it the "Town of " Markham.
Will the Village of Unionville be passing motions too? What about block associations?
Will the Village of Unionville be passing motions too? What about block associations?
EnviroTO
Senior Member
An extension to 16th Avenue? That is dumb. VIVA's crosstown route is on Avenue 7. An extension would mean VIVA Yonge would require a transfer to get to Richmond Hill Centre and another transfer to get on the crosstown routes.
Fresh Start
Banned
See, that was my fear. That once Toronto allows its subway lines to enter York Region that they'll keep demanding more and more extensions until the Yonge Line reaches Aurora. Steeles is a logical ending point. Why must we tempt fate?
Last edited:
xtremesniper
Active Member
Initially I thought the prospect of the consideration to 16th Ave would be great. But you do raise a good point. I propose that all the routes still go down to RHC and have RHC has the major terminal, but also have 16th Ave as an extended station for those who already make transfers at that stop. Logically, 16th Ave is quite a busy intersection, even for transit traffic. The only reason why Highway 7 and Yonge is "busy" is because that's where they've plopped a terminal. A lot of people already make two transfers to get on Viva Purple as it is today because they come from east/west, then travel down a block or two to Highway 7 to continue their trip on Purple.
Fact of the matter is, though, that 16th Ave has been in the discussions for this extension ever since the beginning. All the public consultations and diagrams included a "potential consideration for 16th Ave" in them, so this is no surprise. It's just continuing the same pattern and usage of words as before.
lead82
Senior Member
The public always wants more subway extension, but in reality, we can't just keep extending the subway network outward. We need to stop at some point and refocus on new lines inside the city proper. For the medium term I would like to see Yonge extended north to Steeles right away, as it will improve the service on Yonge by building Steeles with a proper turn-around track or even 3 tracking the platform. That will allow trains to return to service faster and allow for more frequent service.
From Steeles, the next logical extension is RHC. I think it should stop there for the next 20-30 years, as it will be a good focal point of highways, GO, VIVA and YRT lines. In essense it will be a good end terminal.
I am really annoyed that Metrolinx and the TTC cannot fathom building this extension in phases, something that is done all over the world. I think all of us agree that the extension to Steeles is necessary right now. It would save TTC lots of money in operating costs by reducing the number of buses it sends down Yonge from Steeles to Finch. If done without overbuilding the Steeles station bus terminal, the extension could be built for $500M or less, as really it would just be a simple stop at Cummer and then Steeles.
The extension to Hwy7 could be done when money becomes available. This would be an interim fix to the mess that is Yonge St traffic from Finch to Steeles. The congestion around the park and ride during peak hours is ridiculous. I think the TTC should consider shutting down the passenger pick up as the number of people getting picked up is causing huge bottlenecks on the road which ends up slowing down buses.
From Steeles, the next logical extension is RHC. I think it should stop there for the next 20-30 years, as it will be a good focal point of highways, GO, VIVA and YRT lines. In essense it will be a good end terminal.
I am really annoyed that Metrolinx and the TTC cannot fathom building this extension in phases, something that is done all over the world. I think all of us agree that the extension to Steeles is necessary right now. It would save TTC lots of money in operating costs by reducing the number of buses it sends down Yonge from Steeles to Finch. If done without overbuilding the Steeles station bus terminal, the extension could be built for $500M or less, as really it would just be a simple stop at Cummer and then Steeles.
The extension to Hwy7 could be done when money becomes available. This would be an interim fix to the mess that is Yonge St traffic from Finch to Steeles. The congestion around the park and ride during peak hours is ridiculous. I think the TTC should consider shutting down the passenger pick up as the number of people getting picked up is causing huge bottlenecks on the road which ends up slowing down buses.
rbt
Senior Member
Ontario Law has slightly more extensive requirements to stations at end of the line.
Building in phases pretty much makes every station a little bit more expensive to build simply due to having to meet these requirements; and thats on-top of decreased economies of scale for construction.
The job itself will be built as a number of different contracts.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Why is Steeles the logical ending point? There is less at Steeles than there is at Finch (Finch LRT) and Richmond Hill (VIVA east-west and GO). The only thing at Steeles is a political boundary which should have nothing to do with planning transit.
xtremesniper said:
Why split ridership which already does not require a subway between buses and the subway? That will just create less full buses and a less full subway which is hardly economical. There is no reason 16th Ave buses can't make the trip to Richmond Hill Centre the same way Steeles buses currently go to Finch, especially considering there will be a BRT ROW on Yonge to shorten travel times. The plan is to build high density at Richmond Hill and Langstaff which means less people need to transfer if 16th Ave buses go to Richmond Hill Centre.
Leaving the subway at Finch (where it currently is, in the north end of North York Centre, and where Finch LRT is planned) or extending it to Richmond Hill Centre (where there is a "Places to Grow" node, GO station, and VIVA east-west) makes some sense. Extending to Steeles or 16th Ave doesn't help to create a network where subways go to "nodes" and which requires less transfers. Almost all of the plans for York region (Cornell, Markham Centre, 404 & 7 business area, Richmond Hill Centre, and Vaughan Centre) are on Avenue 7 so how can 16th be a better terminus?
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
The logic behind Steeles is that it's a fare boundary...but that could and likely will change in a few years. Still, Steeles is a better terminus than Finch, if only because it would greatly reduce the extremely wasteful comical overabundance of overlapping bus services. We're just used to ridiculously random terminii sites like Finch and Kennedy and Kipling because that's where the lines stopped and that's where we've gotten used to transferring and that's where buses are funnelled to.
Clark would be a good terminus if the rail corridor there was used as an E/W transit line in some fashion, but that doesn't seem to be happening. By Clark, an extension would have shed all its TTC routes, some YRT routes, and is a good place to funnel remaining YRT routes.
The next place to stop is Hwy 7, which is better than Clark or Steeles or 16th or somewhere else farther north because that's where a transit hub is being created. That's a critical reason, though.
Why go to 16th when you can go to Major Mack? Some people would benefit from an extension north of Hwy 7, but there's no really compelling argument to not terminate at Hwy 7.
Clark would be a good terminus if the rail corridor there was used as an E/W transit line in some fashion, but that doesn't seem to be happening. By Clark, an extension would have shed all its TTC routes, some YRT routes, and is a good place to funnel remaining YRT routes.
The next place to stop is Hwy 7, which is better than Clark or Steeles or 16th or somewhere else farther north because that's where a transit hub is being created. That's a critical reason, though.
Why go to 16th when you can go to Major Mack? Some people would benefit from an extension north of Hwy 7, but there's no really compelling argument to not terminate at Hwy 7.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
An extension to Steeles would mean creating a lot of bus terminal space at Steeles and throwing away all of the bus terminal space which already exists at Finch for not that significant a gain. Much of the YRT buses which converge to take Yonge from Finch to Steeles only do so because it is the quickest route to the subway. If the subway ran to Richmond Hill most of the buses passing Steeles would no longer be routed to go past there instead going to Richmond Hill or Clark where there would be greater transfer opportunities within York Region than going south to Steeles and back north to other points in York Region would provide. If the subway went to Richmond Hill there would be more routes serving Richmond Hill than Steeles. Finch with its current two bus terminals wouldn't need a bus terminal since the only route would be the Finch LRT.
We shouldn't 100% throw away the existing two bus terminals at Finch to build a huge bus facility at Steeles which is 50% throw away after the next extension. In addition, the extension to Richmond Hill allows the car traffic that converges on Finch station to be moved to next to the 407 as well where the Steeles extension does not.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Yes, I know that extending north of Steeles is better. I've said so a hundred times. Steeles is better than Finch, though, which is precisely what you quoted.
The incredibly obvious solution should the subway terminate at Steeles, even temporarily, is to not build a huge bus terminal at Steeles.
The incredibly obvious solution should the subway terminate at Steeles, even temporarily, is to not build a huge bus terminal at Steeles.