TransitBart
Senior Member
Here is a stunning idea. Build them simultaneously. Even my little brain can wrap itself around this idea. Lordy. Walking and chewing gum.
WTF is a PITA? Good bread, but I have a feeling that is not what was intended.
Guys this is the internet. We’re not allowed to swear on here!!!
^ Previous reports from the agency suggested the Yonge North Extension could be built without overloading the TTC network, and that both the Yonge project and the relief line should proceed together “in an integrated way.”
https://www.yorkregion.com/news-sto...efore-yonge-north-subway-extension-metrolinx/
In the event, I don't think Metrolinx knew what they were talking about then (at lest the exec) and they still don't now. The exec is too busy putting 'escape clauses' in their reports for when they're proven wrong later.
I don't really see the need to go frantic/manic. People have suggestions, and write them. Kinda the point of a forum. Also phasing projects is pretty commonplace, even here. RL is being phased, as was Line 1 and 2 extensions in the past. Opening YNSE to Steeles before continuing to the hinterland of the outer suburbs actually sounds like a reasonable compromise.
Most of our transit plans are, to some degree, drawn on the back of a napkin.
While I agree with what you've said the idea that the Crosstown uses larger bores than Crossrail (which you've said a few times has never made sense to me, the Crossrail trains are physically larger).
Turns out as I expected that's not the case: Eglinton has 5.7m diameter TBMs Crossrail has 7.1m diameter TBMs.
Source:
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/construction/tunnelling/meet-our-giant-tunnelling-machines/
http://www.thecrosstown.ca/the-project/fact-sheets/tbm
https://www.thestar.com/news/ttc/2011/06/16/supersized_tunneling_machines_ready_to_launch.htmlThe Spadina tunnel will be 5.4 metres in diameter, compared with 5.2 metres on the Sheppard line, because of different curves on Spadina and to accommodate new fire rules requiring wider walkways.
The tunnels won’t be as wide, however, as the underground Eglinton light rail, which requires a 6.5-metre diameter to accommodate the overhead catenary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_City_LineHistory
The Great Northern & City Railway (GN&CR) was planned to allow electrified trains to run from the Great Northern Railway (GNR, now the East Coast Main Line) at Finsbury Park to the City of London at Moorgate. Despite being built using similar methods to the tube network then under construction, the tunnels were built large enough to take a main-line train, with an internal diameter of 16 feet (4.9 m), compared with those of the Central London Railway with a diameter less than 12 feet (3.7 m). However, the GNR eventually opposed the scheme and cancelled its electrification plans, and the line opened in 1904 with the northern terminus in tunnels underneath Finsbury Park GNR station. It was originally electrified using an unusual fourth-rail system with a conductor rail outside both running rails.[9]
[...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_717The Class 717[6] is an electric multiple unit now in use with Govia Thameslink Railway, on their Great Northern routes. They are manufactured by German rolling stock manufacturer Siemens, mainly for services from Moorgate station, in London. A total of 25 six-car units are to be built. As of 21 January 2019, they have entered limited service between Moorgate and Gordon Hill.[7]
[...]
Upon winning the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise, Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) announced that it would seek to replace the existing Class 313 units (which were 40 years old by 2016) operating on services to and from Moorgate, with up to 25 six-car units intended to be procured.[8] In December 2015, GTR announced that it had selected Siemens to provide this new fleet as a follow-on order from the main Class 700order, with entry into service expected from the start of 2019.[9] The order was finalised in February 2016.[10][11]
A significant difference between Class 717s and the earlier Class 700s is the provision of emergency end doors. These are required for evacuation of passengers[6] while in the Moorgate tunnels.[12]
Siemens began testing the Class 717 units in Germany during June 2018.[13] The first unit entered preview service in September 2018 and are scheduled to enter passenger service in early 2019, with all 25 units in service by spring 2019.[7] [...]
That's not really an issue. So were nearly all of Madrid's transit plans as their plans rest entirely in the hands of the mayor during the mayoral campaign. The big difference is their funding was NOT drawn on the back of a napkin, but ours largely is.
I dunno if you can have it both ways with Metrolinx (at least the actual people who work on this stuff behind the scenes).
Most of our transit plans are, to some degree, drawn on the back of a napkin. Toronto said they wouldn't extend Yonge until they built the DRL but they hadn't looked at it broadly, in any way. Pretty much every argument we're having now is because of the network analysis Metrolinx undertook then, the most significant of which is the DRL-north. You never heard this "has to go up to Sheppard" idea that's now a true religion, until Metrolinx raised it in 2009.
Line 1 was built in phases in that various pieces were added over decades; but it wasn't phased in the way you describe, which is to know how far it's going and then only build some of it, just cuz. Anyway, the "hinterland" is (ironically?) the part where all the population that will overwhelm the system is. So, between that obvious fact and the level of development we're already seeing at Steeles, I don't see how it solves a single problem/concern being voiced here or at Toronto council. (Unless you count funding a cross-border operation, which is a political argument not an argument that is a "reasonable compromise" in any other way IMHO).
Metrolinx raised a RL to Sheppard idea in 2009? That's not accurate.
Except for the parts that were phased in and not added over decades. No reason it can't be done again, and may make a reasonable compromise.
Wait til he finds out Ford will fund neither
Wait til he finds out Ford will fund neither