bAuHaUs
Active Member
Is anyone attending tonight's community meeting?
If so please share your findings, thanks.
If so please share your findings, thanks.
Toronto West Block Est. 1928, The LakeShore, and The LakeFront | 130.75m | 41s | Choice Properties | a—A
- Thread starter ten_eighteen
- Start date
mrxbombastic
Active Member
I plan to attend tonight but might not make it for the beginning. I'll pass my findings on for sure. Really hope there are some new things said and shown to get this long overdue project going
bAuHaUs
Active Member
Did you attend? I couldn't make it out and would appreciate an update. Thks.
I didn't attend but have heard from some folks. Traffic was a big part of the discussion. City pretty much admits they don't know how to solve the Lake Shore/Bathurst intersection (rated as one of the worst in the city). People in the area really want retail services. Haven't heard any details re the building itself other than the original plan to have an entrance off of Lake Shore has been scrapped; driving entrances will only be via Bathurst. Also, they overestimated car traffic at Queen and Portland and have too much parking -- they admit they should have put in better bike parking options and will keep this in mind for this location.
Hope someone else has more details/info from the meeting!
Hope someone else has more details/info from the meeting!
RiverCity1
Active Member
Now that's the truth! The intersection is not for the faint of heart. 90% of the problems are with left-hand turns, so if City engineers can solve these, then things would run a lot more smoothly. In the States, I notice a lot of delayed left-hand turn signals, which seems to work better than advance left signals. So...I guess this means that approvals for this project are dependent on first resolving the intersection issues.
I don't know that it will hold up the project. Traffic concerns never seem to matter -- if they did, half the condos in the city wouldn't have been built 
Traffic is an issue in the area. It's been noted as a concern re the expansion of the airport (apparently Adam Vaughan blamed the airport for a lot of things during last night's meeting). Yes, adding two new condo towers will add to the traffic, but I don't believe people said don't build it because of that. Complaints about that intersection are made regularly -- with or without additional traffic, fixing it is long overdue.
Traffic is an issue in the area. It's been noted as a concern re the expansion of the airport (apparently Adam Vaughan blamed the airport for a lot of things during last night's meeting). Yes, adding two new condo towers will add to the traffic, but I don't believe people said don't build it because of that. Complaints about that intersection are made regularly -- with or without additional traffic, fixing it is long overdue.
RiverCity1
Active Member
I'm not too concerned with additional traffic from the condos, but I can see the intersection issues being resolved as part-and-parcel of the redevelopment here. Like up at the Tridel project One Old Mill, the South Kingsway/Bloor Street intersection was reconfigured, along with improvements to Old Mill Dr, for the new developments and to improve traffic flow.
There is a prime opportunity here at Lakeshore and Bathurst to do a lot at the same time. We have the technology
There is a prime opportunity here at Lakeshore and Bathurst to do a lot at the same time. We have the technology
ChesterCopperpot
Senior Member
There will be a laneway between Lake Shore Blvd and Housey Street that will lead to the underground parking for both the underground retail and residential parking.
The entrance of Bathurst will allow for at-grade residential parking underneath the Gardiner.
No kidding. The city can't even figure out where to effectively put (or word) a sign telling people that it's not ok to go from Lake Shore WB onto Fleet WB.We have the technology
My favourite is the streetcars ringing their bells madly at the people pulled up too far on Bathurst SB
RiverCity1
Active Member
My favourite is the streetcars ringing their bells madly at the people pulled up too far on Bathurst SB
I have to admit that I did make that mistake once myself. I didn't do it ever again...that was embarrasing enough...and the cars behind me added to the honking. haha
I'm an expert at navigating the intersection now...but lord help those new to the area or tourists making lefts lol. I feel their pain! I once saw someone driving the wrong way on Fleet...so I sped up to tell him. The look on his face was pricelessmrxbombastic
Active Member
ok so i ended up going ill type out a post in a minute with the details i got. lots of new pictures and such with details for the site plans and rendering. one minute...
bAuHaUs
Active Member
Thanks!
mrxbombastic
Active Member
This is in no particular order as i just took it down in notes but ill try to be logical. I arrived after the main presentation but here is what i learned from the staff and Loblaw reps during questioning and such.
The main issue going forward with the project and one of the biggest issues with the repeat delays was simply the engineering contamination and heritage restoration costs for the site. Garrison creek runs only a few feet below the site which complicates things To address the financial viability of the retail/commercial project and the site conditions, the two condo towers were added to help out. The secondary plan for Fort York area contemplates the possibility of towers on this site however an OPA amendment will bee needed because they have to up the gross floor area of the site from the currently allowed 71,000 square meters to 76,000 square meters. The architects and loblaws arent happy with the design of the commercial box on top (someone called it an over sized air filter LOL) so its going to go back to a redesign. The whole project will eventually go through the Design Review Panel and refined.
The west tower is proposed at 37 stories and the eat tower at 31 storeys. Given shadowing issues on Fort York, the towers will likely be sculpted to reduce that or potential shortened by a floor or two. Loblaws is planning a partnership with a developer and builder to help with the development of the site. No word yet on who but my guess is PCL or Ellisdon. The retail and commercial part will come first. regardless whether the condos sell quick enough. If the market for condos can bare, then the whole project can be done in one shot or else there will be a phased implementation. parking will be both underground and at grade under the Gardiner.
After some confusion regarding the billboard heritage status and weather they will come back: they are not as of right allowed to come back since once they are dismantled for construction the builder must reapply to put them back up through the usual billboard application process. However loblaws does want to bring them back as part of keeping with their plans for the site.
While Loblaws was developing the site plan for the area they realized from their Queen&Portland location that they didnt need so much parking. The site was reconfigured to be less auto based with an increase in bike parking and pedestrian amenities. Parking in the condos west of Bathusrt has been less than expected and there will be likely approx 340 spaces for retail/commercial and about 600 for residential.
With regards to Traffic, the whole area is being studied as part of the billy bishop airport transport study. The affect of loblaws is being considered in this study. Lakeshore Bathurst intersection is currently a mind boggle for traffic engineers and they can possibly conceive why it is how it is and are having a difficult time figuring out how to improve it. The current hope is that the completion of Fort york boulevard, Housey Street and Dan Leckie Way will help to ease traffic congestion along lakeshore with alternate routes. Adam Vaughan said that hopefully the completion of the fort york connection will get under way "within a matter of months".
Loading docks will be located at an entrance off of Housey street and parking for the residences will come in off bathurst. The plan in a right in, right out on bathurst to ensure no left turns blocking traffic flow.
One of the most interesting discussions was about transit in the area. Some radical TTC streetcar ideas.
Given the Bremner/Fort York streetcar is likely never going to happen in our time due to funding outlays and other transit priority projects Adam Vaughan was talking about an idea which would see a free/TTC shuttle service operated in a loop From front/spadinat to Bremner across to Bathurst, back up to Front and back across to Front/spadina.
Addressing the east Bayfront transit needs Adam Vaughan was mentioning discussions with the TTC of running the bathurst car down to queens quay and to union station.Then TTC extending the spadina streetcar over to the east bay front with some sort of eastern extended surface track passed the Bay portal as a means of finding a lower cost solution to the east bay front tunnel which would be needed for a separate east bayfront line to enter union station. The result is frequent service provided to union station using streetcars for the folks in the condos south of the rail tracks and also to the people expected to be coming down to queens quay.
So thats a mouthful. Ask if you have any questions and ill try to clarify.
The main issue going forward with the project and one of the biggest issues with the repeat delays was simply the engineering contamination and heritage restoration costs for the site. Garrison creek runs only a few feet below the site which complicates things To address the financial viability of the retail/commercial project and the site conditions, the two condo towers were added to help out. The secondary plan for Fort York area contemplates the possibility of towers on this site however an OPA amendment will bee needed because they have to up the gross floor area of the site from the currently allowed 71,000 square meters to 76,000 square meters. The architects and loblaws arent happy with the design of the commercial box on top (someone called it an over sized air filter LOL) so its going to go back to a redesign. The whole project will eventually go through the Design Review Panel and refined.
The west tower is proposed at 37 stories and the eat tower at 31 storeys. Given shadowing issues on Fort York, the towers will likely be sculpted to reduce that or potential shortened by a floor or two. Loblaws is planning a partnership with a developer and builder to help with the development of the site. No word yet on who but my guess is PCL or Ellisdon. The retail and commercial part will come first. regardless whether the condos sell quick enough. If the market for condos can bare, then the whole project can be done in one shot or else there will be a phased implementation. parking will be both underground and at grade under the Gardiner.
After some confusion regarding the billboard heritage status and weather they will come back: they are not as of right allowed to come back since once they are dismantled for construction the builder must reapply to put them back up through the usual billboard application process. However loblaws does want to bring them back as part of keeping with their plans for the site.
While Loblaws was developing the site plan for the area they realized from their Queen&Portland location that they didnt need so much parking. The site was reconfigured to be less auto based with an increase in bike parking and pedestrian amenities. Parking in the condos west of Bathusrt has been less than expected and there will be likely approx 340 spaces for retail/commercial and about 600 for residential.
With regards to Traffic, the whole area is being studied as part of the billy bishop airport transport study. The affect of loblaws is being considered in this study. Lakeshore Bathurst intersection is currently a mind boggle for traffic engineers and they can possibly conceive why it is how it is and are having a difficult time figuring out how to improve it. The current hope is that the completion of Fort york boulevard, Housey Street and Dan Leckie Way will help to ease traffic congestion along lakeshore with alternate routes. Adam Vaughan said that hopefully the completion of the fort york connection will get under way "within a matter of months".
Loading docks will be located at an entrance off of Housey street and parking for the residences will come in off bathurst. The plan in a right in, right out on bathurst to ensure no left turns blocking traffic flow.
One of the most interesting discussions was about transit in the area. Some radical TTC streetcar ideas.
Given the Bremner/Fort York streetcar is likely never going to happen in our time due to funding outlays and other transit priority projects Adam Vaughan was talking about an idea which would see a free/TTC shuttle service operated in a loop From front/spadinat to Bremner across to Bathurst, back up to Front and back across to Front/spadina.
Addressing the east Bayfront transit needs Adam Vaughan was mentioning discussions with the TTC of running the bathurst car down to queens quay and to union station.Then TTC extending the spadina streetcar over to the east bay front with some sort of eastern extended surface track passed the Bay portal as a means of finding a lower cost solution to the east bay front tunnel which would be needed for a separate east bayfront line to enter union station. The result is frequent service provided to union station using streetcars for the folks in the condos south of the rail tracks and also to the people expected to be coming down to queens quay.
So thats a mouthful. Ask if you have any questions and ill try to clarify.
mrxbombastic
Active Member
Lastly. entrances are planed for the northern portion of the site. Residents got pretty upset with the lack of street animation of bathurst and lakeshore so there are discussions about retail opportunities along bathurst and lakeshore facades to animate the streetscape there. City planners are hoping with new condos coming up along the bathurst facing side they will include retail in their bathurst faces at grade creating a community hub with the new Garrison creek park and library and such.
RiverCity1
Active Member
That's awesome. Thank you kindly for the update! As someone who wanted to go but couldn't, it's much appreciated