Toronto Urban Sprawl Compared to Other Cities

[innsertnamehere]

on street parking will be necessary for the businesses to survive at first. I just realized I'm off by 4 meters in overall width of the street as well, I was giving myself a 32 meter ROW but Detroit streets are really 36m ROWs.

 

[salsa]

What you see in that photo is what a lot of American suburban arterials look like, except for the generous sidewalks. It's not suburbia, but the image is an accurate representation. The more affluent suburbs might have some niceties like landscaped medians, but that's what they look like.

What's remarkable, though, is that Detroit's inner city has quite wide streets like Gratiot Avenue that are lined with walkable blocks with a built form like Bloor Street (west of Spadina) but with 8 lanes of traffic. Michigan Avenue even has 8 lanes of brick pavement in one neighbourhood. The standard Toronto main street is only 4 lanes wide, and that street width is almost universal to the point of banality in this city. Detroit would have an easy time building transit ROWs and bike lanes if it were prosperous like Toronto. The city could probably have the streetcar network of Toronto, but with every route in its own ROW and still have the same private vehicle capacity.

That's an interesting observation. It's bad enough that the inner city streets have to be 8 lanes wide, but the actual suburbia is even more disgusting. Check out this gem that is 8 Mile Road. That's a lot of lanes.

And I like how the road is grade-separated where it intersects with other behemoths. Cuz you know, it's bad if all those cars have to stop at a traffic light.

This one even has a cloverleaf interchange.

This city is so overbuilt for cars that I'm almost certain it contributed to it's demise, starting when the freeways gutted the downtown while allowing the flight of its tax base. Today Detroit is half as big as it used to be, but it still has to maintain so much infrastructure. With almost no rapid transit, Detroit is not embracing the future either, unless they think a 3.3 mile streetcar project will change much. Oh, and did I mention that their suburbs are ugly as hell?

Car-oriented cities suck.

 

[Johnny Au]

Detroit is known as Motor Town for a reason. Its moniker contributed to its demise.

Live by the car, die by the car.

 

[Forgotten]

Look at those wooden poles and suspended wires! High voltage lines and towers right in the middle of the street! They're reaping the advantages of having the foresight to build roads with huge right of ways.

 

[salsa]

Look at those wooden poles and suspended wires! High voltage lines and towers right in the middle of the street! They're reaping the advantages of having the foresight to build roads with huge right of ways.

Every now and then a truck will crash into those transmission towers, knock out power to a bunch of people, and electrocute everyone. What a brilliant example of great urban design.

 

[Ladies Mile]

That's an interesting observation. It's bad enough that the inner city streets have to be 8 lanes wide, but the actual suburbia is even more disgusting. Check out this gem that is 8 Mile Road. That's a lot of lanes.


This city is so overbuilt for cars that I'm almost certain it contributed to it's demise, starting when the freeways gutted the downtown while allowing the flight of its tax base. Today Detroit is half as big as it used to be, but it still has to maintain so much infrastructure. With almost no rapid transit, Detroit is not embracing the future either, unless they think a 3.3 mile streetcar project will change much. Oh, and did I mention that their suburbs are ugly as hell?

Car-oriented cities suck.

This is almost a perfect storm of stupid assumptions. Anyone familiar with my posting here knows I am not exactly rah-rah about the yanks, but Detroit's suburbs are absolutely no worse than Toronto's, and, if you go in for Gatsby-era tat (I don't), are extremely impressive of their type.

Not all of it looks like Eight-mile any more than all of Toronto looks like Jane and Finch.

 

[adma]

And I like how the road is grade-separated where it intersects with other behemoths. Cuz you know, it's bad if all those cars have to stop at a traffic light.

This one even has a cloverleaf interchange.

Though I must say, as a fan of retro highway engineering: that first grade separation (at least the "trenched" part) looks like it's got some age (and retro-renovated bridge rails) to it--and even if it's now got Jersey barriers in lieu of railings, the fact that that cloverleaf remains a cloverleaf is also impressive...

 

[innsertnamehere]

Well the queensway has hydro poles down the middle of it in Toronto, and 6 points could qualify as an interchange as well.

 

[ShonTron]

Though I must say, as a fan of retro highway engineering: that first grade separation (at least the "trenched" part) looks like it's got some age (and retro-renovated bridge rails) to it--and even if it's now got Jersey barriers in lieu of railings, the fact that that cloverleaf remains a cloverleaf is also impressive...

The first one is a double-diamond interchange between Woodward (M-1) and 8 Mile (M-102), through traffic on both do not have to stop at lights, but left turns have to go through three traffic signals (though are timed so cars really only have to worry about two of them). There are similar double diamonds (rare except in Metro Detroit) at 8 Mile and the Crysler Freeway (I-75) and a similar set up with slip ramps and service roads at 8 Mile at the John Lodge (M-10). There's others at Woodward and the Walter Reuther (I-696) in Royal Oak and Telegraph and the Jeffries (I-96) in Redford Township.

8 Mile and Telegraph Roads are both eight lanes with wide medians set up for that very Michigan institution: the Michigan Left, which reduces dwell times at intersections by banning all left turns and requiring U-turns with long slip lanes. There's a few intersections on Telegraph that rely on interesting connection roads, like at Plymouth Road and Grand River Ave.

Detroit's highway system is really impressive - not just the many freeways and what California would call expressways like 8 Mile and Telegraph - there's even ghosts of freeway based "bus rapid transit" like those tried, and abandoned, in Los Angeles - routing buses via freeways with stairways and slip ramps. Detroit's roads are like Los Angeles without the traffic congestion.

 

[officedweller]

That looks like a very well maintained elevated highway.

 

[adma]

Or, it looks refreshed/renewed/repainted--as does the Woodward-8 Mile double-diamond.

 

[atodaso]

Makes for a delightful urban experience.

 

[howl]

. . . Detroit's roads are like Los Angeles without the traffic congestion.

Detroit's roads are like Los Angeles' without the population.

 

[middeljohn]

Detroit's highways are comparable to Montreal's in road surface condition. They also have similarly short on ramps which would not pass for 400 series highways.

 

[Johnny Au]

Good thing about Parclos; they were invented here.