Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

Mercenary said:
They could to US border pre-clearance at Union Station allowing faster trains to New York City
Click to expand...
Yes, but you then have to 'contain' inspected passengers if train makes additional stops before crossing the border and the passengers who boarded between Union and the border would still need to be processed. I doubt that the current volume of trans-border passenger traffic (even pre-covid) would warrant the US stationing staff at Union.
 
I have taken the Train from Oakville to New York City. The border processing takes 3 hours almost in Buffalo.

If they establish a pre-clearance facility in Union Station and eliminate Oakville as a stop then the Train go straight through to USA without any stops.

Which can shave 4 hours from the journey.
 
To offer pre-clearance at a location that currently doesn't have any customs officers; you need decent traffic volumes for 1 full shift as a minimum.

One train per day does not get you there.

If the travel time to NYC were slashed by 2 hours it would still be a 10.5 trip.

I doubt we get beyond 2x daily service unless meaningful portions of the corridor go HSR; which may well happen, one day, but that is likely decades into the future.

There is a plausible service here, but its based around a Buffalo-Toronto rail shuttle that operates at least 3x each way, each day; then serves the Maple Leaf (the trip to NYC) incidentally, along with perhaps a restored service to Chicago 1x per day.

I think the volumes may be there to support it given the congestion in the QEW corridor.

But right now, no such service exists.

I'm not aware of any on the immediate horizon either.

But I think that's the only way you see pre-clearance at Union.

Pre-Clearance has been authorized for Montreal and Vancouver; and its not up and running at either yet.

Like Toronto, Montreal currently has 1x daily service.

When the Vermonter gets re-extended, which is likely, in a few years, that 2x service may come close to justifying the investment; but I expect they probably need a Montreal-Boston run as well.

Vancouver likewise is likely waiting on a third daily service to make the numbers work.
 
Leo_Chan said:
View attachment 283271
Click to expand...

Just a general comment about the new Union bus terminal, based on this design, the buses will have to back up after picking up passengers. Isn't this kind of crazy? Given capacity was one of the issues at the old one, a design where the buses can can easily leave the bus bay like at the old terminal makes more sense. It just feels like it'll be inefficient. I don't think any TTC terminals (or even most other GO ones outside of Yorkdale) are designed in this way.
 
Hairball said:
Just a general comment about the new Union bus terminal, based on this design, the buses will have to back up after picking up passengers. Isn't this kind of crazy? Given capacity was one of the issues at the old one, a design where the buses can can easily leave the bus bay like at the old terminal makes more sense. It just feels like it'll be inefficient. I don't think any TTC terminals (or even most other GO ones outside of Yorkdale) are designed in this way.
Click to expand...
They do it at Hamilton GO Centre and it works just fine. Albeit, the demand over there is much less than what we'll be seeing over at Union.

There's not much else they could have done with the design, given the space constraints within the building's footprint.
 
Amare said:
They do it at Hamilton GO Centre and it works just fine. Albeit, the demand over there is much less than what we'll be seeing over at Union.

There's not much else they could have done with the design, given the space constraints within the building's footprint.
Click to expand...
It is also a very common practice in bus termini like Union; I have seen it in many places.
 
Northern Light said:
To offer pre-clearance at a location that currently doesn't have any customs officers; you need decent traffic volumes for 1 full shift as a minimum.

One train per day does not get you there.

If the travel time to NYC were slashed by 2 hours it would still be a 10.5 trip.

I doubt we get beyond 2x daily service unless meaningful portions of the corridor go HSR; which may well happen, one day, but that is likely decades into the future.

There is a plausible service here, but its based around a Buffalo-Toronto rail shuttle that operates at least 3x each way, each day; then serves the Maple Leaf (the trip to NYC) incidentally, along with perhaps a restored service to Chicago 1x per day.

I think the volumes may be there to support it given the congestion in the QEW corridor.

But right now, no such service exists.

I'm not aware of any on the immediate horizon either.

But I think that's the only way you see pre-clearance at Union.

Pre-Clearance has been authorized for Montreal and Vancouver; and its not up and running at either yet.

Like Toronto, Montreal currently has 1x daily service.

When the Vermonter gets re-extended, which is likely, in a few years, that 2x service may come close to justifying the investment; but I expect they probably need a Montreal-Boston run as well.

Vancouver likewise is likely waiting on a third daily service to make the numbers work.
Click to expand...

It’s better to have the customs and immigration for both Canada and the United States done in Niagara Falls or Buffalo.

If done in Niagara, have GO/VIA trains terminate at one end, and Amtrak on the other. The worst case for any passenger is that you have to take the next train onwards if you’re delayed at CBP or CBSA.

If in Buffalo, VIA trains would either continue past NFNY to a new central bus and rail hub with CBP & CBSA, or take the TH&B route through Welland and Fort Erie, as was done until 1980 or so.

Either would be difficult, but still easier than preclearance at Union.
 
ShonTron said:
It’s better to have the customs and immigration for both Canada and the United States done in Niagara Falls or Buffalo.

If done in Niagara, have GO/VIA trains terminate at one end, and Amtrak on the other. The worst case for any passenger is that you have to take the next train onwards if you’re delayed at CBP or CBSA.

If in Buffalo, VIA trains would either continue past NFNY to a new central bus and rail hub with CBP & CBSA, or take the TH&B route through Welland and Fort Erie, as was done until 1980 or so.

Either would be difficult, but still easier than preclearance at Union.
Click to expand...

I can't see the need for pre-clearance for rail services. Unlike airplanes there is not much demand for cross border rail services.
 
Richard White said:
I can't see the need for pre-clearance for rail services. Unlike airplanes there is not much demand for cross border rail services.
Click to expand...
I certainly agree that there is currently no need (or possibility) of pre-clearance for rail service from Toronto BUT if the rail system gets dragged into the 21st century and passenger trains are not seen as 'second-priority, if there are more trains to more US destinations (due to more demand) and if climate-change concerns reduce viability of (or increase costs for) air travel of less than 500km THEN there will be the passenger demand that would make it viable. I would not expect to see it for many years!
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top