Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

[Richard White]

It would have been nice if part of the rebuild was improving the Queens Quay streetcar loading at Union. I remember trying to see the giant yellow duck (I know, wth?) and getting crushed in the crowds waiting to embark the streetcar. Why not have the streetcar run straight into the lower concourse instead of the twisting bunker it’s in now?

It’s as if we cloned the DC’s bunker-like streetcar loop http://wikimapia.org/26706238/Dupont-streetcar-underground-station-closed

It is much better now than it was before. I used to take the 509 to work at Exhibition Place when it was still a tunnel with an escalator and stairs up to the mezzanine level smelling like the lake. Back then you had lines snaking out across the mezzanine but now you have a controlled area on the subway platform.

What gets me is that they never use the glass doors to close off the streetcar loop like they designed them to (they only use metal crash gates).

 

[ryguy7787]

As a young kid in the early 90s my family had blue jays season tickets in the 500's. Coming from Barrie, taking the Yorkdale subway to Union was always a treat when we went to Cinabon after the games and before our way home.

Flash forward a couple of years and when college friends and I were going to raves at The Docks and surrounding industrial complexes, we would always meet up at Union and wait it out until the Sunday 10am subway started while enjoying McDonald's and reviewing our nights.

There were also a number of times throughout the years where a friend and I were in between commutes to very different areas and decided to have a mini layover and grab a coffee and a donut and just relax for 20 minutes.

What I'm getting at is there are a ton of people beyond just everyday commuters who will use it for a lot of purposes and will make Union Station a tradition... not just a convenience.

It has already become home to some of my best memories to date... and I forsee many more.

 

[W. K. Lis]

As a young kid in the early 90s my family had blue jays season tickets in the 500's. Coming from Barrie, taking the Yorkdale subway to Union was always a treat when we went to Cinabon after the games and before our way home.

Flash forward a couple of years and when college friends and I were going to raves at The Docks and surrounding industrial complexes, we would always meet up at Union and wait it out until the Sunday 10am subway started while enjoying McDonald's and reviewing our nights.

There were also a number of times throughout the years where a friend and I were in between commutes to very different areas and decided to have a mini layover and grab a coffee and a donut and just relax for 20 minutes.

What I'm getting at is there are a ton of people beyond just everyday commuters who will use it for a lot of purposes and will make Union Station a tradition... not just a convenience.

It has already become home to some of my best memories to date... and I forsee many more.

Maybe with display boards showing the next departure times of GO/UPX/VIA trains & GO buses in 15 minutes.

 

[rbt]

What I'm getting at is there are a ton of people beyond just everyday commuters who will use it for a lot of purposes and will make Union Station a tradition... not just a convenience.

Agreed. It's just the power of big numbers.

Even 5% of commuters using the station amenities (if for nothing but a coffee) still means 20,000 daily customers for the retail in a few years. Given that 400 heads is a very large number for an eat-in restaurant, that seems like a decent opportunity.

Retailers won't struggle to get a reasonable number of customers; they're going to struggle with getting a high margin out of a sale to pay the ludicrous lease rates caused by high demand.

 

[Isotack]

It would have been nice if part of the rebuild was improving the Queens Quay streetcar loading at Union. I remember trying to see the giant yellow duck (I know, wth?) and getting crushed in the crowds waiting to embark the streetcar. Why not have the streetcar run straight into the lower concourse instead of the twisting bunker it’s in now?

It’s as if we cloned the DC’s bunker-like streetcar loop http://wikimapia.org/26706238/Dupont-streetcar-underground-station-closed

It wouldn't occur to me to take a street car from Union to harbour front. It's a five minute walk.

 

[DSC]

It wouldn't occur to me to take a street car from Union to harbour front. It's a five minute walk.

True, but many do after arriving on the subway. Since the rebuild the connection is now very easy.

 

[TOareaFan]

Agreed. It's just the power of big numbers.

Even 5% of commuters using the station amenities (if for nothing but a coffee) still means 20,000 daily customers for the retail in a few years. Given that 400 heads is a very large number for an eat-in restaurant, that seems like a decent opportunity.

Retailers won't struggle to get a reasonable number of customers; they're going to struggle with getting a high margin out of a sale to pay the ludicrous lease rates caused by high demand.

I think you are understating how competitive the market for customers is gonna be......they are building 165,000 s.f. of retail space....the vast majority of it is going to be very similar to each other (ie. quick serve food and bev).....and, as you note, the rents will preclude them from competing with price.....so that is a lot of sandwiches to serve.

Somewhat unrelated obdervation:

Stopped by, for curiosity, the new Italian joint this morning as I got off my trains....they had a tray of lovely pre-made sausage frittata sandwiches...... bought one for a treat.......it was wonderful......but, guess what, that sandwich (which is just, really, a fancier better quality sausage mcmuffin) with a medium coffee came in at a pre-tip price of $9.40)....they are not going to sell many of those in a day.....but they have to pre-make them (speed matters with morning commuters) so the cycle of quality/quantity/speed combined with rent probably does not leave them much leeway. The mass marketers (McDonalds/Tims/etc) will win the day.....and we will probably be looking back in a few years complaining that this place looks just like every other food court in the city.

 

[mnbvcxzlkjhgfd]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if they will be replacing/adding more ceiling lights to the great hall? In the renderings it appears there are multiple chandeliers. The current singular light in the centre of the ceiling is so dinky and dim. It would be great if they could brighten up the space.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Hopefully, the retail would include dollar stores, drug stores, and even grocery stores.

 

[DSC]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if they will be replacing/adding more ceiling lights to the great hall? In the renderings it appears there are multiple chandeliers. The current singular light in the centre of the ceiling is so dinky and dim. It would be great if they could brighten up the space.

About a year ago there was a City tender for new lights for Great Hall but it was then cancelled. I assume this was because they were still working on the ceiling and walls and were not ready so assume that the tender will be re-issued. There are excellent heritage consultants involved ( http://evoqarchitecture.com/en/ )

 

[mnbvcxzlkjhgfd]

About a year ago there was a City tender for new lights for Great Hall but it was then cancelled. I assume this was because they were still working on the ceiling and walls and were not ready so assume that the tender will be re-issued. There are excellent heritage consultants involved ( http://evoqarchitecture.com/en/ )

Awesome! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Admiral Beez]

It wouldn't occur to me to take a street car from Union to harbour front. It's a five minute walk.

I imagine that's the majority of trips on the 509, especially on summer weekends.

 

[Sandpit]

Hopefully, the retail would include dollar stores, drug stores, and even grocery stores.

What kind?

(edit: this is a semi-serious question BTW)

 

[TOareaFan]

What kind?

(edit: this is a semi-serious question BTW)

if you put one of the new cannabis outlets near the platform doors to the Richmond Hill train you could solve the problem of their council refusing to allow a store there (although, the province says no municipality actually can refuse the stores).

 

[innsertnamehere]

if you put one of the new cannabis outlets near the platform doors to the Richmond Hill train you could solve the problem of their council refusing to allow a store there (although, the province says no municipality actually can refuse the stores).

nor any other kind of land use. Municipalities are only allowed to regulate land uses, not prohibit them. There have been some extensive legal cases of municipalities trying to ban things like wind turbines by either prohibiting the use in the zoning by-law or placing such strict restrictions that it becomes impossible to actually operate the use (I.e. one municipality put in place a regulation that a wind turbine must be 5km from a public road, while there was not a single location in the entire municipality that met that condition). If a marijuana dispensary is legal on the provincial level, it must be permitted in the zoning by-law in some capacity. Now of course, it can be very limited in its potential locations.. but must have some sort of ability to operate.