Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

Based on the west (York) moat they actually move quite fast (though that was in summer weather). On Bay (east) moat they have already installed at least 75% of the glazing bars and the black rubber 'weather-stripping' so I will not be surprised to see them installing glazing on this moat in February. Of course, they are still working (VERY SLOWLY) at finishing off the wall at the east end of the YORK moat and thus finishing off covering that side and, as noted above, they have just started to fix the equivalent wall (at its west end) of the Bay moat and cannot finish off either one until these walls are done..
I will disagree that you will see glazing come Feb based on what I have stated before on what work has to be done first.

Yes they have started to work on the west end wall and it will take time to finish it.

The biggest issue is, when will that steel stair get remove??

Until it is removed, you can't put the footings in for the 2 missing columns for the west end in that location. I don't think and fail to check it out that the other 3 footing by TTC entrance still have to be dug. Once you have those footing in place as well all the steel work is up, you have to plumb and square it and that were the cross bracing comes into place. Then the electrical folks needs to install all the electrical work for the floodlights and other items, the plumbers have to get in to installed all the drainage and sprinkler system and the list goes on.

Dec 07
Union Chicken
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I have read your posts and we know you are commuting on GO. What if I were taking the train to Montreal and I wanted something savoury and fresh ahead of a 5 hour trip?
My wife, kids and I took the train to Montreal last Friday at 6:30am, and train home Sunday night. One of the best things of train over air travel is that you can show up at the train station about 5 mins before your train departs. That's what we did. We ate a hearty breakfast at home, Uber to Union, grabbed some sandwiches and coffee at the Starbucks in the Go Concourse and then boarded our train. On the return trip, we disemarked the train at Union Sunday around 5pm, walked straight to the exit and took a taxi home. It never occur to me to loiter around the station at either departure or arrival at Union for food or merchandise.

I've taken trains in Britain, China, Germany, Czech Republic, Croatia, Austria and many places. I am always pleased to see modern, efficient stations on my trips, and I am very pleased to see Union striving to match the grand stations I've seen elsewhere. So, I don't begrudge the expense of making a grand station for Toronto. But I question why we need another subterranean shopping mall. I'd rather we focus on sheltering and moving people - for example I am very grateful for the new Go Concourse, where I can wait in well lit, clean and open spaces for my train while I read the news, and yes maybe buy a coffee, but I don't need a Coras or whatever breakfast chain might move in, lol. I'm only there for ten mins max.

However I strive never to be like the contrarians we all frustratingly see on forums, so I will be very pleased to be proven wrong, and I hope to see a popular and well used shopping and food court level under station.
 
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Remember that the experience isn't limited to commuters, but also the tens of thousands of office workers and new condo residents surrounding the station who are starved for neighbourhood amenities. If you recall the outdoor markets held over the past few years in the plaza, they were busy to the point of being unpleasant.
 
Remember that the experience isn't limited to commuters, but also the tens of thousands of office workers and new condo residents surrounding the station who are starved for neighbourhood amenities. If you recall the outdoor markets held over the past few years in the plaza, they were busy to the point of being unpleasant.
no doubt there will be some use from non-transit users around the station....but using the outdoor markets as an example of how the indoor, underground, food outlets will do is off base.

the outdoor market drew people from a much wider area.....for example, our office is at King and Uni.....every day we had people walking down to Union to experience the market at lunch......but they are not going to be doing that to experience and indoor/underground food court....we got plenty of those up here already!

I fall in the camp that the food court(s) being built at Union is probably over build and at some point rents will have to come down to keep units full as some businesses fail in what will be a highly competitive mark for customers. I believe that even though I recognize there are other users around other than transit users.....it just seems (to my semi-trained eye) to be a lot more food retailing space than is necessary.....but time will tell.
 
But I question why we need another subterranean shopping mall. I'd rather we focus on sheltering and moving people - for example I am very grateful for the new Go Concourse, where I can wait in well lit, clean and open spaces for my train while I read the news, and yes maybe buy a coffee, but I don't need a Coras or whatever breakfast chain might move in, lol. I'm only there for ten mins max.
The added retail is essential to the financial success of the revitalization of Union. Cash from leases on 200k sq ft of high-traffic retail will pay for a lot of long-term maintenance.

There's a lot of info about this in old posts on Steve Munro's blog. E.g., these quotes from the vice-chair of the Union Station Revitalization Public Advisory Group:
There are many who believe that the interpretation of a National Historic Site is not compatible with a provision for commercial and retail establishments within that site. The Public Advisory Group does not share this view. We recognize that the restoration and ongoing heritage interpretation of this building is going to cost a lot of money. We also recognize that most of this money is not going to come from taxpayers. We welcome and we encourage the participation of the private sector in leveraging the heritage value of Union Station.

...

The Public Advisory Group is pleased that the proposed alterations to the Union Station headhouse and the provision for additional space to accommodate commercial revenue do not in any way compromise the heritage elements of the building. The digdown, as it’s been characterized, the creation of retail space underneath the present basement level GO and VIA Rail train concourses, will provide the revenue necessary to pay for the restoration and revitalization of Union Station and it will not compromise those spaces within the station that the city will be celebrating.
(via https://stevemunro.ca/2007/11/28/union-station-revitalization-update-part-ii/)
 
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These pics, with mirrors standing in for windows, make me think of a jazzed up Führerbunker or fallout shelter.
Remember that the experience isn't limited to commuters, but also the tens of thousands of office workers and new condo residents surrounding the station who are starved for neighbourhood amenities.
But why then is most of the Path shopping closed weeknights and weekends? If I lived in a condo the last place I'd want to go out for dinner or shopping is underground. I'd likely use the Path to walk to the Eaton Centre. There are many reviews online complaining how the Path closes at 6pm and not open on weekends:

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserReviews-g155019-d591342-r250556114-The_Path-Toronto_Ontario.html

Will the Union Station shops and food courts be open beyond these times?
 
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Those reviews are erroneous. I have been in the PATH until well past midnight, especially the sections with pubs and restaurants adjoining them. This includes weekends.
Yes, most of it is certainly open late into evening and on weekends BUT many (most in some parts) of the stores etc are closed after about 7pm and on weekends.
 
Different parts of PATH closes at different times. Some parts of PATH have stores/restaurants staying open to 9pm or beyond.

AFAIK, the Union restaurants will be open late.

Worked on Bay St. Most food courts underground. I worked on Bay street and 90% of the food courts I ate in were all subterranean, some good, some soso, and Eaton Centre's Urban Eatery is a very good subterranean food court. Union's complex of gastronomy will be in that league of "fanciness" (approximately), and in some ways fancier (there's no sit-down as fancy as now-opened Amano in Urban Eatery).

Union already attracting lunch worker traffic:
I now hear reports that people are coming into Union to eat lunch, from the surrounding skyscrapers. Massive food court market, that is quite insatiable. As long as more York-side PATH connections open (eventually), I think the Union food court will succeed.

Lame York-side PATH:
The problem arises in the lame York-side path connections and the pre-RER era, which means there might be a bit of a struggle between 2018-2025 for some of the shops, but the rents will still help pay for Union's upkeep, merely from the lunch market alone. After 2025, I have no doubt on the vibrant popularity of the subterranean food court.

Overcrowded food courts at lunch:
Unless you've worked on Bay Street like I have, you can't believe how hugely popular the subterranean food courts are. Overcrowded. We need more food courts downtown, IMHO -- purely based off my own personal experience as an IT cubicle office worker. In many food courts, it is literally more than 10x more massive profits than the condo market.

My Experience As a Lunch Lemming: Workers often PATH-over 1 or 2 buildings, so it'll capture a lot of downtown office-worker market as a Relief Food Court, lightening the loads on their respective food courts, which then cascades into business for even-further-adjacent buildings, in a cascading effect that flows all the way to far beyond Eaton Centre. Any new food court that opens downtown is promptly instantly filled with office workers at lunch in a major induced-demand flow/contraflow. In a new equilibrium, all overflowing again. I've seen it happen over the years. Sure, some workers eat at their desks because food courts are full and lineups are too long, but that's a massive latent market of office workers who will go to a nice food court with good, healthy food.

Lamenting York-side PATH:
That's why I lament the delayed/postponed York-side PATH connections, and lack of Royal York connections to elsewhere. I almost think we need to force Royal York to force them to open their bottom level as a pedestrian expressway in multiple directions, east, west, and northwards.

Even lunch success may not be enough:
And secondly, while lunch success is all but assured, even the lunchtime may not be enough to pay for expensive Union rents, even if I already know that Union food court will be busy at lunch (I can assure you it will be) -- you probably need breakfast, lunch and dinner business often to just pay for the rent. So that's why turning GO into a metro equivalent (RER/SmartTrack/whatnot/etc) will likely be needed to make sure that the food is busy.

Anticipated moat openings will help:
Nontheless, TD Carriageway will pull in the lunch market into the York concourse with a fairly short walk from many towers to the west/northwest, since there's very good sidewalk entrances now. It'll be an easy walk once the TD Carriageway is finished, but it may require an outdoor hop (ugh, winter) until more PATH links are made on the west-side.

Even today, evidence is now showing lunchtime surges at Union, now that business workers are discovering Amano. Reportedly, it filled up nicely at lunch with mostly non-commuters. Promising start.
 
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Yes, most of it is certainly open late into evening and on weekends BUT many (most in some parts) of the stores etc are closed after about 7pm and on weekends.
yes....the majority of the path is open off peak...but as a path not a mall/food court.

still not sure why some buildings (eg the HSBC building on York) gets to advertise/promote being part of the PATH but gets to close/block access at off peak times.
 
Yes, most of it is certainly open late into evening and on weekends BUT many (most in some parts) of the stores etc are closed after about 7pm and on weekends.
I remember working a tradeshow at the convention centre on a Sunday afternoon and entering the Path at Simcoe Place to grab some food at the court and the entire place was eerily closed up and dead.

I'm always amazed there aren't more homeless people down there. Forget opening up the Armories, instead open up the Path, lol
 
I remember working a tradeshow at the convention centre on a Sunday afternoon and entering the Path at Simcoe Place to grab some food at the court and the entire place was eerily closed up and dead.

I'm always amazed there aren't more homeless people down there. Forget opening up the Armories, instead open up the Path, lol

I was in there around 10 pm a couple weekends ago and security was wandering around kicking people out. I don't think many people realise it is open late as a passageway. Does anyone know how late it remains open?
 
It's a real shame Union closes at all. It becomes a pretty significant barrier to walk around when closed.

This was brought up a few weeks ago on here. Essentially it is a liability and cost issue. There are not enough people passing through between 1 am and 5 am to justify it being kept open. You would need increased security to prevent the homeless from taking up residence overnight along with increased lighting etc etc. Not worth it for 1 person entering the station per hour overnight.

With the station closed overnight they can perform heavy cleaning tasks like mechanised cleaning (think floor cleaning machines), stair cleaning along with saving money from dimmed light and lowered heating. They need to close the station overnight to clean it because you simply cannot do that with the normal amount of traffic.
 
It would have been nice if part of the rebuild was improving the Queens Quay streetcar loading at Union. I remember trying to see the giant yellow duck (I know, wth?) and getting crushed in the crowds waiting to embark the streetcar. Why not have the streetcar run straight into the lower concourse instead of the twisting bunker it’s in now?

It’s as if we cloned the DC’s bunker-like streetcar loop http://wikimapia.org/26706238/Dupont-streetcar-underground-station-closed

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