Thanks. Yeah I've only been on the new platform a handful of times, and I was more focused on the new platform itself, and the work being done on the old platform, that I didn't really take a look at the signage too much.
Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR
Thanks. Yeah I've only been on the new platform a handful of times, and I was more focused on the new platform itself, and the work being done on the old platform, that I didn't really take a look at the signage too much.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Technically, Lakeshore East/West and SmartTrack East/West (Kitchener-Stoufville merged), would only need four tracks at Union. Assuming the services ran very efficiently with short dwell times.
nfitz
Superstar
Even with the current schedule, you need at least 5 tracks just for Lakeshore at peak. For example, there's a departure at 7:40 AM eastbound to Pickering, and then arrivals at both 7:43 and 7:45 from Oakville, 7:43 to Aldershot, and then another 7:50 arrival from Pickering.
Four tracks might work well if there was just off-peak service, but it's the express services at rush hour that make things more complicated.
wopchop
Building Toronto
Maybe, maybe not. I just noticed (because of the Presto thread) that it is on the Presto - Where can I use it? webpage.
It kind of looks like a weird phone.
nfitz
Superstar
So it is. And the old one further down.
But I don't think that's the one that Brad tweeted, which seemed to have some oddly thin lines, that I don't see on the Presto website.
Ah, and they've updated already to show Presto has gone live at Dundas West station.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Agreed; the assignment of express/peak bilevel diesel services requires separate dedicated tracks even in the GO RER era.
I'm just referring only to the baseline allstop electric RER services. Even with electric-locomotive-driven bilevels, with shortened dwell times and electricification, you can probably run 7.5-minute RER frequencies per platform assuming the USRC efficiency is sufficiently improved by then (resignalling, new train traffic control centre, higher-speed crossovers, automatic train control, available corridor capacity after contending with other services, etc). When the same platform has another train coming in 7.5 minutes (ala Sheppard Subway frequency), you only have to open the GOtrain doors for about 1 minute (or a bit less) before closing and accelerating out of the berth right away for the next train. It's doable even with low-platform trains, assuming USRC is optimized.
Consider the potential of 7.5 minute RER peak frequency Lakeshore East/West using electric locomotive driven 12-car Bombardier bilevels, and 7.5 minute RER peak frequency "SmartTrack" using EMUs (see my other posts why I think the Kitchener-Stoufville GO RER will end up using EMUs). With efficient service operation, there is already mostly sufficient corridor capacity on Georgetown corridor (if EMUs) and Lakeshore West (with electric locomotive driven bilevels) after some optimizations. France does higher same-platform frequencies than this with their commuter trains, and we already do ~7.5 minute peak frequencies today on Lakeshore with just diesels albiet interspersed on different tracks/platforms.
7.5 minute peak same-platform frequencies would empty the platform quicker with quicker train turnover, keeping the platforms clear in the era of an expanded Union. Otherwise, platform overcrowding will otherwise become a worse problem when number of peak period passengers double at Union through 2031.
Still, 5 to 7.5 minute peak-period turnover per RER track is possible with low platforms, assuming USRC optimizations are milked to their potential. Though, interspersing with other services on Georgetown corridor will be challenging. With EMU's, you can pull off shorter dwell times, and with raised platforms, even shorter dwell (towards subway frequency), but the USRC throughput capacity will almost certainly be the limiting factor. How much long-term throughput Metrolinx wants to milk per track, will require several very important decisions over the coming years.
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AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
I think the association of the TTC logo with the subway is important as subway entrances around the city are identified with TTC logos. If the GO and VIA logos are there, the TTC logo should be there. I'm sure the TTC would be pretty insistent that the logo be on the signage.
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mdrejhon
Senior Member
Strongly agree. Keep the TTC logo, but do a better job with the signage.
I hope the current signage is "Revitalization Version 1.0", and they will plan a redo the wayfinding by 2017.
wopchop
Building Toronto
What about, for each service, using 2 tracks for EB (sharing 1 platform), and 2 tracks for WB (again, sharing one platform). That way it's easy for people to make their way to the platform, and on-platform signage will indicate whether the train that just pulled up on the south side is running local or express.
That would give you the necessary track space to accommodate the number of trains needed, but would still keep travel in 1 direction on 1 line confined to 1 platform.
I believe at Union the new signage has the Yellow 1 just as prominent, if not more-so, than the TTC logo. The TTC seems to be moving in that direction. You won't need the TTC logo for wayfinding once the Line Bubbles become more ubiquitous.
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DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
It is funny that in the internet age there's little use for a concourse in the traditional sense. Rather than mill about in a large area waiting for your train, simply check the schedule & platform number online and head directly there at the train's expected arrival time.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
With the eventual arrival RER routes (three RER routes merging five GO lines), they probably need to be assigned line bubbles too, and a specific line color code, given they will probably be also displayed on both TTC and GO maps in the future when the network is far more integrated than today.
canmark
Active Member
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I hope at least some of the restaurants open before they shut down Bay concourse. The York concourse is going to get somewhat crowded (albiet not as crowded as the old Bay concourse) in a large hurry once Bay shuts down, and it would be a big shame not to have any food to eat at the York concourse.
They will need to be prepared for slightly slow start to business until the TTC connection to the lower retail level happens -- then that's when you reap the profits of the lower retail level.
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