Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[Whoaccio]

Complaining about John Street closing.

Now that King & Church are staying open, closing John Street (to vehicular traffic, there will be a pedestrian bridge) will result in a diversion of 400-600m. In a car, this is a negligible distance. Maybe Weston residents had some right to complain when all three streets were being closed, but now that 2 are being overpassed (and the 3rd pedestrianized) there is really nothing unfair about this.

Its the fact that a diesel train will pass through Weston every 3 1/2 minutes with the ARL, GO Transit, Frieght trains, and VIA trains coming through. Even a future planned VIA link from Toronto to Montreal will ultimately pass through Weston!

Wow, I wonder if it could have anything to do with living next to the City's main NW rail corridor. Seriously, if you buy property next to an active and non-electric rail corridor, why should anybody care? I live next to the 401, which has thousands of trucks & cars going by every minute, should I complain? Should people who just moved into Malton complain about the airport? Maybe people buying waterfront condos have a right to complain about both the Gardiner & rail corridor?

As I said, no one cares about the kids, the seniors, adding more pollution....

What are you, Hellen Lovejoy? Thousands of kids throughout Toronto live next to airports, highways, rail corridors and such. It is nobody's fault but the people who decided to move in next to an already functioning rail corridor.

I want to call this NIMBYism, but it isn't even that. NIMBYs usually have the good sense not to move in next to something they dislike and then complain after the fact that it is negatively impacting their lives.

 

[TOareaFan]

As I've said before, the question is do we want improved service to begin in 3 to 5 years or in 10 to 15 years?

If we want the first option then we have to use modern diesels...

Very well said......I think one of the reasons the GTA has fallen so far behind other cities of similar size in transit is that we, somehow, got addicted to the mega project/perfect project mentality....once you add all that up, the number crunchers say "can't afford it".

If we just do, each year, what we can afford the cumulative effect is a much better transit system that gets better incrementally.

 

[saveyorksouthweston]

GTA airport train cannot be another 407

http://www.airrailnews.com

Wednesday, 28 January 2009
An express rail link to Pearson airport is a fine idea, as long as thescheme doesn't make second-class travelers out of anyone whose trip starts somewhere other than Union Station.

Until now, it looked as if residents in Brampton or northwest Toronto would not be able to access the airport via the busy Georgetown rail corridor thatruns next to Pearson. At last, plans are moving ahead to bring high-frequency service to this and adjoining GO rail lines, including a private-sector train between Union and the airport.

The stalled project has been handed over to the provincial planning agency Metrolinx and there is now the opportunity for some responsible planning to happen, hopefully in a much more transparent fashion. Many have blamed residents of the Weston area for airing their concerns that the premium-fare airport service would mean the closure of local streets, excessive diesel fumes and most galling: the train wouldn't even stop in Weston.

The fact is the previous plan was seriously flawed, not only due to the secrecy surrounding the use of public funds, but the manner in which other users along this major corridor would be denied access to Pearson. It's time to cross fingers that the province can close a deal through its Infrastructure Ontario department that won't turn the Pearson air rail link into another Highway 407. When the former Conservative government sold the toll road to a for-profit conglomerate, many Ontarians thought Queen's Park would protect taxpayers and drivers better. Not so.

Since Liberal premier Dalton McGuinty insists on completing the airport line with a high degree of private sector involvement, we can at least ask that the secrecy of the transaction be only the minimum required. The airport rail link is bundled with significant and overdue public investment. It may be tempting to hide subsidies to private concerns within this near-billion dollar mega-project, but Queen's Park and Metrolinx must follow the best practices used elsewhere in the world. The public deserves clear answers about this multi-corridor scheme and they should get them at six upcoming public meetings in early February.

Ed Drass www.metronews.ca
Back J. Goss + Associates (416) 534-4008
pres@jgoss.com http://www.jgoss.com
cep 591-G (ofl/clc)
All rights reserved.

 

[nfitz]

Your point?
So we should add more diesel polluting vechicles???
As I said, no one cares about the kids, the seniors, adding more pollution....

The exhaust from a diesel locomotive is minimal compared to that from the number of cars that it would be replacing. The reason that you are complaining about this, is that it's your backyard that the engine will be going past, rather than someone elses. If you don't want it in your back yard, then ... well then I think there is an acronym for that.

It seems beyond absurd that someone who had the lack of foresight to not buy property next to the widest railway artery leading into the biggest city in the nation, is complaining that it will have transit vehicles on it - and thinks they have the right to try and dictate the use of a particular technology. I live near the Lakeshore tracks - I've never noticed any odour from the trains - not at least since they stopped flushing the toilets directly onto the tracks.

There does seem to be some weaknesses in the current Metrolinx proposal though. The placement of a station at Lawrence doesn't seem justified, and I will submit to them, that this not be done unless zoning in the area be changed to allow some serious densification to justify the station.

The original proposals did seem to have some flaws, in regards to the crossings. These have been dealt with (though I might question why the CP tracks aren't going to be dealt with along with the CN tracks).

Continuing to fight against diesel trains, turns what was quite a remarkable coalition of citizens, into something quite distasteful.

 

[saveyorksouthweston]

Now that King & Church are staying open, closing John Street (to vehicular traffic, there will be a pedestrian bridge) will result in a diversion of 400-600m. In a car, this is a negligible distance. Maybe Weston residents had some right to complain when all three streets were being closed, but now that 2 are being overpassed (and the 3rd pedestrianized) there is really nothing unfair about this.

Closing John St will have a huge impact in Weston. First off, have you been to John Street? By closing this street and moving the station south of Lawrence will cause a traffic nightmare on Weston Rd. There are no left turns allowed onto Lawrence from a side street off of Rosemount. Nor can you make a left turn at Weston on to Lawrence Ave. The Pedistrian bridge if anything will be very difficult for seniors to cross. I need to see what they are planning for this bridge.

 

[nfitz]

Closing John St will have a huge impact in Weston. First off, have you been to John Street? By closing this street and moving the station south of Lawrence will cause a traffic nightmare on Weston Rd. There are no left turns allowed onto Lawrence from a side street off of Rosemount. Nor can you make a left turn at Weston on to Lawrence Ave. The Pedistrian bridge if anything will be very difficult for seniors to cross. I need to see what they are planning for this bridge.

I'm shocked at this pathetic whining. Good god, they are going to do both and King with grade-level bridges. John Street is so close to King Street that I can't see that a pedestrian crossing is even worth while - but your getting that anyway - it's not even more than the length of a subway platform between them - about 600 feet.

These are not busy streets, dispersing the vehicular traffic to King, Church, and Lawrence, will be negligable. And with such excellent rail service from this location to Brampton, the airport, and downtown, and with the new LRT constructed nearby on Jane, surely vehicular traffic would drop.

All you are doing, is confirming that suspicions that many of us had right from the beginning. That this Weston objection, is nothing but Nimbyism; throwing up any objection you have to it, and seeing what will stick; not because you want to improve transit, but merely because you don't want rail running near your backyards.

It's absolutely disgraceful, and you should be thoroughily ashamed of yourself. You should be focussing objections to how the CP track will be treated, and why there is a private company running the airport service, rather than objecting the overly generous pedestrian bridge (and closing) of John Street!

 

[Whoaccio]

There are no left turns allowed onto Lawrence from a side street off of Rosemount. Nor can you make a left turn at Weston on to Lawrence Ave.

This is the most trivial and petty excuse yet. Left turn regulations come and go very easily. All you need to do is convince the City to send a guy with a screw driver to take down the sign.

I'm also more than a bit amused at Westonimbys crowing about vehicle time delays of 2-3 minutes. When Dichotomy made those complaints, he was (rightly) tarred as some reactionary Mike Harris-Rob Ford lovechild. But now that a bunch of NDP voters in 'priority neighborhoods' are making the same exact complaint, and arguing that their 2-3minute inconvenience is more important than improving rail transit in the City to boot, everyone can't help but fawn over them like some modern day David against that evil SNC-Lavallin.

 

[waterloowarrior]

Metrolinx Virtual Open House

there are plans, profiles, preliminary alternatives... etc

 

[waterloowarrior]

.

 

[ShonTron]

Whoaccio and nfitz: Could you calm down on the attacks a tad? Wait and let's see what's going on. I suggest going out to one of the open houses.

Saveyorksouthweston: I was totally supportive of the WCC the first time, but you are admittedly not helping your cause here sounding like Helen Lovejoy. There's a much stronger case this time around that there is a NIMBY sentiment, though I still have sympathy for Weston after being screwed around the first time and how I do not like how Blue 22 is planned. I suggest you also wait for more details.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

So, if the trains had on-board nuclear generation to power electic motors, you'd be happier? Of course, nuclear power doesn't actually generate electricity, but in fact boils water to turn the turbine. So, basically we'd be going back to steam engines.

Reminds me of the Ford Nucleon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon

now you're being silly. do i need to explain what the differences between nuclear power plants and nuclear locomotives are? especially in relation to safety?

 

[nfitz]

Whoaccio and nfitz: Could you calm down on the attacks a tad? Wait and let's see what's going on. I suggest going out to one of the open houses.

The open house boards are all on Metrolinx's website (which Waterloo Warrior had earlier noted). They call it an interactive open house. Nothing else is scheduled to be released until after the public comment period ends in a few weeks. What are you thinking we should be waiting for?

 

[Whoaccio]

I get the feeling that much of the controversy over this has been caused by differing understandings of what "NIMBYism" is. In my understandig NIMBYism is opposition to a development based on a perceived damage to local land values. The actual merits (or lack) of a project are irrelevant.

Wind power, for instance, is a poor source of generating capacity. It isn't viable without government aid and has low reliability That said, opposition to wind power is usually drenched in NIMBYism. Why does it matter if we both agree on what should happen? Because I disagree on why it should happen, and intent is what is usually forgotten here. If anti-wind people are operating on a NIMBY basis, their intent is just to preserve local land values and not contribute to boosting power supply. So, they would be just as opposed to a nuclear reactor in their back yard or a coal plant. It is a rub either way. If their intent is simply to prohibit local development, they aren't opposed to 'wind' per se, but just new generating facilities.

As it relates to Weston Coalition, and this is a generalization, I got the impression that opposition was based not on a desire to improve transit for the GTA, but to protect local land values. NIMBYism. The merits of the project don't really impact this. Blue22 could have been teams of African pygmies harnessed to rail cars as a means of locomotion, if opposition was based on the intent to preserve land values it is just as NIMBY as opposing some super sexy European esque ARL. Now, after numerous concessions have been made (and the project price tag doubled), the core reasons of opposition are becoming more clear. The opposition is based on a general displeasure with having "hundreds of diesel trains run through our backyard." If the problem is too many trains then the solution is less or no trains, and this clearly clashes with generally accepted visions for transport in the GTA.

The problem came in that Weston Coalition framed the issue in a way very attractive to Toronto's, (i hope i don't offend) largely left wing transit advocacy community. The trains were private, running through a low income area, for profit. This pushes the buttons of everyone's inner NDP. If you look at it though, they are all red herrings. None of those factors had any bearing whatsoever on the core issues. If the core issue is declining local land values, it makes no difference if the trains are private, or for profit, or through a poorer as opposed to richer area. All these arguments did was to divert attention from the ARL and into broader socio-economic issues, which had no direct relation with the original EA. Now that we have caved into Weston demands on these red herrings, we can see the core issue all too clearly. Land values. It's never been about anything else.

 

[ShonTron]

And the inner Conservative says "screw you poor people, I want my express air link. Get a job, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and stop whining! Now where's my tax cut?"

 

[jks]

Lolol @ ^^^^^^^^^^^