Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[Markster]

I look forward to a report from Metrolinx on the actual post-fare-cut average fare.

 

[steveintoronto]

Vegeta: Excellent post, as always. That certainly puts to rest any 'lenience' shown toward the Sharyos as to their 'working out the bugs'. It doesn't help, as per CSR's refrain, that Metrolinx seems to think that silence in the face of adversity is the best policy. I could understand their stating a position on 'waiting until electrification' to remedy some of the operational challenges, but it seems that for them to do so would be an admission of failure.

But the End of Line Protection(PTC) system is so wonky that alarms will go off if train is traveling more than 6-7mph going by the station. I'm all for PTC but this system is quite frankly, a POS.

Yikes....this sounds like a replay of some of the issues with the Sharyos you wrote about months back. Hard to know if this is just teething problems or intrinsically bad design. PTC is a large part software, perhaps that can be tweaked...perhaps not.

UP trains are speed restricted to 10mph at Bloor & Weston when traveling beside the high level platform because there is a concern that the track might shift and result in the train scrapping or impacting on the edge of the platform. The track was not built to a high enough standard, which either MX or the contractor apparently had the option to do but declined.

It's only the last month that I've noticed the dramatic slowing to enter the platform bay. It's hard not to imagine that was due to a scraping, now you describe how abject the directives are. I know with Bloor station, towards the north end of the platforms, there's a real issue with underground water flow, such that any new buildings of size going up around there have to pump the soil out even before digging, and then continue to do so thereafter on a sump basis. The building going up to the NE of the Bloor station, that was delayed with just a giant concrete 'bathtub' in the ground, was due to far more water flow than geo-hydrological tests had predicted. It could well be that tracks into Bloor station are shifting. They might have to lay them on concrete slabs to stabilize them.

Additionally the brakes cannot be feathered like on a traditional GO train.

I presume this is a situation of 'grab or release' application? That condition usually means the final stop is abrupt, not to mention wear and tear on suspension and structure let alone a jerky ride for passengers.

But the new cab cars and the UP trains are like a 6-speed transmission, making it far less accurate to work with. Lastly the spotting mark it self is difficult to focus on because aside from being tiny, it disappears from view when almost spotted due to poor sight lines from inside the UP cab.

When you state "6-speed xmssn" I'm immediately reminded of the ZF in the Sharyos, albeit it is a fluid clutch (torque converter). It's bizarre to me from my limited understanding as to how the loco trains could suddenly become 'notchy'....it's got to be in the way the control parameters are set-up in the cabs. Unless they're using a newer electronic bus system to do it, how could they possibly turn the clock back fifty years or so in terms of smooth motor and brake control? I could understand that on the Sharyos, since there's no intermediate electrics, but on the full locos? This is really perturbing info.
"Lastly the spotting mark it self is difficult to focus on because aside from being tiny, it disappears from view when almost spotted due to poor sight lines from inside the UP cab". I've noticed the drivers actually facing sideways coming into the platform, having to sacrifice forward vision to spot the train. It puts them in an awkward situation, and I wonder if the platform is packed, then what? Without knowing more details, I'm hesitant to comment further, but one wonders why they don't have a forward vision system (like aligning two polished metal mirrors to determine distance) or an electronic one, even audible tone so as to allow vision being used for safety?

Any further updates on the mechanical situation with the Sharyos?

 

[ShonTron]

Great post, but forgive me for thinking this after reading this part:

UP trains are speed restricted to 10mph at Bloor & Weston when traveling beside the high level platform because there is a concern that the track might shift and result in the train scrapping or impacting on the edge of the platform. The track was not built to a high enough standard, which either MX or the contractor apparently had the option to do but declined.

Is there a chance the track could bend?

 

[drum118]

They've been running at least one 3-pack almost everyday for many weeks now and recently they've started to run two fairly regularly.



Unfortunately that is something that would be very difficult to change because it's either required by rule, or necessary to properly spot the consists.

There are speed restrictions at every UP station stop. At the airport there is a series of speed restrictions; 40mph on the viaduct, 25mph on the curve just before the station, 15mph from the signal mast to a point just before the station and finally 10mph by the station itself. But the End of Line Protection(PTC) system is so wonky that alarms will go off if train is traveling more than 6-7mph going by the station. I'm all for PTC but this system is quite frankly, a POS.

UP trains are speed restricted to 10mph at Bloor & Weston when traveling beside the high level platform because there is a concern that the track might shift and result in the train scrapping or impacting on the edge of the platform. The track was not built to a high enough standard, which either MX or the contractor apparently had the option to do but declined.

Union station is the least speed restricted at 15mph. Additionally the UP trains have to be stopped very slowly. In fact it's harder to spot these trains then it is to spot a regular GO train. GO train overshoots happen in the range of 1 in 1000 stops, meanwhile UP overshoots happen more like 1 in every 100 - Just my estimates I have no actual data, but from real work experience and observation it's easily in the range of an order of magnitude more. The good news is that and UP train overshot can be corrected very quickly and won't result in a significant delay like it can for GO train overshoots.

It's possible they can(should) correct the track deficiency at Bloor and Weston but the difficulty in stopping at the Airport and Union is not as easily correctable.

The way I stop a GO train can be best described as gliding it to a stop. After initiating a brake application I have plenty of time to feel exactly how responsive the brakes are. There's also plenty of time to feather the brakes as needed when approaching the spotting maker. The train is properly spotted when the 5A door is next to the mini ramp which is 35ft long(with a couple of random exceptions).

Meanwhile properly spotting the UP consist at the airport or union requires stopping the train within the space of about a foot. Essentially one needs to be 35 times more accurate. This difficult because of several factors. First it's not necessarily easier to stop a train when traveling at very slow rate of speed. There is much less time to gauge how well the train is braking - from 10mph an UP train stops in a matter of seconds. And while the brakes are very responsive they're not certainly not 35 times more responsive it still takes a second or two to apply and release. Additionally the brakes cannot be feathered like on a traditional GO train. Braking pressure is set at specific levels much in the same way as the throttle is set up for all trains. Annoyingly, the new Cab cars have a similar system in place. I liken it to a transmission in a car. With the old cab cars and the Mp40 engines one can infinitely modulate the brakes, it's continuously variable. But the new cab cars and the UP trains are like a 6-speed transmission, making it far less accurate to work with. Lastly the spotting mark it self is difficult to focus on because aside from being tiny, it disappears from view when almost spotted due to poor sight lines from inside the UP cab.

Clearly the system was not well thought of. But I suppose in the grand scheme of things it's actually one of the lesser flaws of the service. It's a minor thing compare these black marks, I'll give 'em that much;
-the overall build quality of the trains
-the cost recovery of the service
-the many issues plaguing the platform door systems
-the flawed end of line protection
-the build quality of the stations(eg. poor heating and cooling at indoor stations, the wooden paneling falling from the ceiling at the airport - I'm NOT joking but I wish I was)

As stated above, all UP consists are required to slow down to 10mph before the high level platform, it's a speed violation(serious rule infraction) to not do so. Of course it's even stupider that the track was built to such a low standard necessitating the restrictions in the first place.

This show how clearly MX is out of touch how to build things, not willing to spend more to do it right the first time and most of all not having the personnel to oversee these projects.

Contractors have no control over the design work and only can offer solutions to do thing faster or right, but up to MX to say yes or no depending on time and cost. They have full control over how things are built as per plan, but a few always find corners to cut too save money. I have seen far too many projects to spot poor workmen ship, flaw material and design work over the years and this systems as well other MX project have a fair number, sorry to say.

At the same time, Province is to be blame, as they are trying to do things on a shoe string in a short time frame so they can say "look what we have done" to get reelected. I will give the Province credit going this route starting in 2003, but they had no idea what is was going to cost to do it then as well now. How to fund it is a killer even today as well not bitting the bullets that would offer the big return at the end of the day.

UPX has been a disaster since it first surface as Blue 22 over 15 years ago and will remain so until major changes are made to it that will require ripping various sections out and rebuilding them.

Watching how UPX arrives at stations is head shaking when comparing it to US systems with high platforms let alone in Europe using both high and low floor ones. Even the subway puts UPX to shame.

How you stop will very with other engineers, but mostly with ones with less than 5 years of service. Then some of the old times get caught from time to time, depending on what they are driving at the time.

Going with precast ties at the station will help with the slowness issues and a higher expense to use, but that is where things are going to these days.

 

[smallspy]

There are speed restrictions at every UP station stop. At the airport there is a series of speed restrictions; 40mph on the viaduct, 25mph on the curve just before the station, 15mph from the signal mast to a point just before the station and finally 10mph by the station itself. But the End of Line Protection(PTC) system is so wonky that alarms will go off if train is traveling more than 6-7mph going by the station. I'm all for PTC but this system is quite frankly, a POS.

Nitpick: there are two onboard systems - a PTC system over the whole of the line which has not been turned on yet (and it seems that there is no hurry to enable), and the End-Of-Line Protection system which is functional.

UP trains are speed restricted to 10mph at Bloor & Weston when traveling beside the high level platform because there is a concern that the track might shift and result in the train scrapping or impacting on the edge of the platform. The track was not built to a high enough standard, which either MX or the contractor apparently had the option to do but declined.

I've heard that from other crews as well, but I'm not buying it. The line was built to Class 5 specs. I think the issue is more a Metrolinx edict and someone near the top not actually knowing how these things work.

Of course, it really wouldn't have been that big an issue to simply install slab track if they really felt that it was needed, although that then opens up its own separate can of worms.

Is there a chance the track could bend?

Not on your life, my hindu friend.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[ssiguy2]

" but Main street is still cracked and broken, sorry Mom Metrolinx has spoken."

 

[steveintoronto]

vegeta_skyline said: ↑

UP trains are speed restricted to 10mph at Bloor & Weston when traveling beside the high level platform because there is a concern that the track might shift and result in the train scrapping or impacting on the edge of the platform. The track was not built to a high enough standard, which either MX or the contractor apparently had the option to do but declined.

I've heard that from other crews as well, but I'm not buying it. The line was built to Class 5 specs. I think the issue is more a Metrolinx edict and someone near the top not actually knowing how these things work.

It might be the Sharyos, not the track. VIA still goes through at speed, but the last few times I've looked, subjectively, not as fast as they used to. Whatever's going on, it's an interesting point. I could understand for PR purposes slowing the UPX into the platforms, but not to that slow a speed, it's conspicuous by its over-caution. First time it happened, I thought it was because I had a dog on a long leash waiting on the platform, and the driver couldn't read the situation, and deferred to safety. It's very oddly slow. Drum nailed it with his comments above. Compared to subways or European trains, even Amtrak NE Corridor ones, it's really odd. Something's up.

Of course, it really wouldn't have been that big an issue to simply install slab track if they really felt that it was needed, although that then opens up its own separate can of worms.

If that is the fix, one wonders why it would be done in retrospect. In the event, if the TC regs permit it, and the foundations are up to a structural spec to allow it, the ties could be anchored to the platform footings.

The more I think about it though, since the loco hauled GO aren't slowed from what they've always been, it could be tied to Vegeta's brake issues mentioned. If they're grabbing, it might be causing lateral stability problems on the Sharyos. Just a theory, but in the absence of any kind of explanation other than Vegeta's first-hand ones, it must be considered. I can't help but look at those bogies every time a Sharyo goes by, and realize that they've been engineered in the lightest way possible, all well and good in terms of low accelerating mass, but often at the expense of stability and smooth ride. I'm going to take a close look at the platform gap from a few angles just to check for consistency. That gap will tell a lot, especially from station to station. It could also be the overshoot issues Vegeta mentioned. Getting back to PR, not much looks worse than overshooting, and having to reverse back. I've noted that at Union a few times to line up with the platform doors. What immediately strikes me there is the apparent lack of automatic alignment as is done on subways ( http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/meteor/meteor7.html )

Some other posters have commented on how they've cut corners on a project that's awash in red-ink from the get-go, purely to satisfy a show-case to the world for a flash-in-the-pan event that's left a headache to now re-purpose. The Sharyos were supposed to be the same price as what SMART paid for them. The price still hasn't been revealed, and even SMART probably won't order any more of the same model/make, a whole topic in itself. Not to mention that Metrolinx paid hundreds of thousands $ to SMART to develop the prototypes, and then, oddly, decided to go for the mechanical xmssns, something specifically forbidden in SMARTs tender-proposal.

SMART are required by law to make all of that info available to the public. In Ontario? Phhhh...you can pay for a Request for Information...you don't get your money back when they say NO. Or more likely, just don't answer.

There's real poetry in that.

 

[steveintoronto]

SMART do have their PTC fully functional: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4647527-181/test-runs-reach-79-mph?gallery=5127239&artslide=0 and there's a lot more information on performance there too. These units are hardly jackrabbits, even if they can accelerate and brake in a shorter distance than the loco-hauled full trains. They're tortoises compared to what other jurisdictions have.

But on the subject of PTC:

Information published on 26 April 2016 in the UIC electronic newsletter "UIC eNews" Nr 495.

United Sates: FRA announces $25 million available for Positive Train Control (PTC) implementation
Keywords

• North America
• News from UIC members

The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) today announced that it is accepting applications for $25 million in competitive grant funding available to railroads, suppliers, and state and local governments for Positive Train Control (PTC) implementation. The funding is part of the 2016 Consolidated Appropriations Act that funds the U.S. Department of Transportation.

“Positive train control is a long overdue technology that prevents accidents and saves lives,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “These funds will help us get closer to implementing PTC, and I encourage applications that can make these limited dollars go as far as possible.”

Applications will be accepted until May 19, 2016, and FRA will give preference to projects that would provide the greatest level of public safety benefits. As part of the President’s Fiscal Year 2017 budget proposal, FRA requested $1.25 billion to assist commuter and short line railroads with implementing PTC.

PTC prevents certain train-to-train collisions, over-speed derailments, incursions into established work zone limits, and trains going to the wrong tracks because a switch was left in the wrong position. In 2008, Congress mandated PTC implementation on certain railroad main lines where railroads transport poisonous-by-inhalation hazardous (PIH) or toxic-by-inhalation hazardous (TIH) materials, or any line where a railroad provides regularly scheduled passenger service. Last October, Congress extended the original deadline from December 31, 2015 to at least December 31, 2018.

“Any Congressional funding and investment to make Positive Train Control active on our nation’s railroad network is a worthwhile investment,” said FRA Administrator Sarah E. Feinberg. “But it will take even more significant funding to achieve this important, life-saving goal. We look forward to working with Congress to find these resources and encourage railroads to submit strong applications.”

Since 2008, FRA has provided significant assistance to support railroads’ PTC implementation. Those efforts include:

• Providing more than $650 million in grant funds to passenger railroads, including nearly $400 million in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 funding;
• Issuing a nearly $1 billion loan to the New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority to implement PTC on the Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North Railroad;
• Building a PTC testbed at the Transportation Technology Center in Pueblo, Colorado;
• Working directly with the Federal Communications Commission and the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation to resolve issues related to spectrum use and improve the approval process for PTC communication towers; and
• Dedicating staff to work on PTC implementation, including establishing a PTC task force.

(Source: FRA)

http://uic.org/com/uic-e-news/495/a...-positive-train-control-ptc?page=iframe_enews

 

[pstogios]

I'm heard second-hand information that some taxis and limos are losing fares with the new UPX fares.

To this point, this Sunday June 5th evening I saw something I had never seen before: taxi drivers in the corridor leading up to the UPX station between Terminal 1 and the bridge trying to intercept people walking to the UPX station. It was sketchy. Two guys were calling "taxi, taxi, anyone need a taxi?" at 9:30 pm. I think that shows an growing desperation caused by the popularity of the lower UPX fares. (And good for that, it's about time the limo/taxi monopoly is broken)

I think the GTAA should crack down on this--doesn't exactly make the airport look very professional or modern with some sketchy drivers hanging out there.

 

[ksun]

To this point, this Sunday June 5th evening I saw something I had never seen before: taxi drivers in the corridor leading up to the UPX station between Terminal 1 and the bridge trying to intercept people walking to the UPX station. It was sketchy. Two guys were calling "taxi, taxi, anyone need a taxi?" at 9:30 pm. I think that shows an growing desperation caused by the popularity of the lower UPX fares. (And good for that, it's about time the limo/taxi monopoly is broken)

I think the GTAA should crack down on this--doesn't exactly make the airport look very professional or modern with some sketchy drivers hanging out there.

Agree. These people give travelers a very bad impression (judged by how I feel when seeing this in other countries, mostly developing countries).

 

[W. K. Lis]

Usually, the City of Toronto taxis can drop off passengers at the airport (at a fixed rate), but cannot pick up passengers unless they have a license from Mississauga. However, the Toronto taxis would be eligible to pick up passengers at the UPX stations (on the meter), but not the Mississauga taxis.

 

[ShonTron]

To this point, this Sunday June 5th evening I saw something I had never seen before: taxi drivers in the corridor leading up to the UPX station between Terminal 1 and the bridge trying to intercept people walking to the UPX station. It was sketchy. Two guys were calling "taxi, taxi, anyone need a taxi?" at 9:30 pm. I think that shows an growing desperation caused by the popularity of the lower UPX fares. (And good for that, it's about time the limo/taxi monopoly is broken)

I think the GTAA should crack down on this--doesn't exactly make the airport look very professional or modern with some sketchy drivers hanging out there.

This has always been a problem. And you bet the GTAA - which requires their own licences for airport taxis and limos and makes a small fortune doing so - cracks down on this from time to time.

I was at the airport last night, transferring from Brampton Transit 115 to TTC 192 (and using the washroom in between) and they were down at the bus terminal level pulling that nonsense.

 

[steveintoronto]

Further to Shon's point:

Illegal taxis remain at Pearson airport despite crackdown
'Scoopers' charge more for fares, do not have licenses
CBC News Posted: Oct 16, 2014 6:53 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 16, 2014 6:53 PM ET

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...t-pearson-airport-despite-crackdown-1.2801977

I actually have some sympathy for them, albeit that's predicated on their acting appropriately, but the shoe's on the other foot now:

Airport limo drivers protest Uber pick-up deal


Unionized drivers claim they've lost prime pick-up space in domestic arrival area of Pearson.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2015/05/27/airport-limo-drivers-protest-uber-pick-up-deal.html

There should be opportunity for all to compete on a level playing field, and before anyone yells "subsidized rail!"...the roads have subsidized grid-lock and pollution for far too long. The real question is when the next bylaw-enforcement binge happens at Pearson.

However, the Toronto taxis would be eligible to pick up passengers at the UPX stations (on the meter), but not the Mississauga taxis.

I question that. On what basis? Been Googling to verify your claim, can find nothing but the contrary.

 

[Napoleon]

vegeta_skyline said: ↑
It might be the Sharyos, not the track. VIA still goes through at speed, but the last few times I've looked, subjectively, not as fast as they used to. Whatever's going on, it's an interesting point. I could understand for PR purposes slowing the UPX into the platforms, but not to that slow a speed, it's conspicuous by its over-caution.

Exactly (bolding mine). There's been a marked decrease in the speed of the trains entering Bloor station. It's something I understand at the end of a line, but it just looks bizarre at a station in the middle of the line. There's something they're worried about for sure.

To this point, this Sunday June 5th evening I saw something I had never seen before: taxi drivers in the corridor leading up to the UPX station between Terminal 1 and the bridge trying to intercept people walking to the UPX station. It was sketchy. Two guys were calling "taxi, taxi, anyone need a taxi?" at 9:30 pm. I think that shows an growing desperation caused by the popularity of the lower UPX fares. (And good for that, it's about time the limo/taxi monopoly is broken).

I've seen the taxi touts more often trying to get passengers at the exit to customs on the lower level. It's not as bad as I've seen it in other countries though. Some of the tales of travel woe I've heard over the years have involved taxis soliciting at the airport. Always to be avoided.

 

[steveintoronto]

Exactly (bolding mine). There's been a marked decrease in the speed of the trains entering Bloor station. It's something I understand at the end of a line, but it just looks bizarre at a station in the middle of the line. There's something they're worried about for sure.

I just thought of another possibility, and ostensibly this would be indicated by cracks, but not always the case: Maybe the tracks and the Sharyos are OK...it's the *building*! Normally, I'd dismiss that, but the ground under there is unstable due to the ground-water issues I described prior. Again, a telling clue of *anything* amiss would be platform to train clearance being un-even, or not to the same tolerance of other stations on straight track sections.

Edit to clarify: A small amount of settling would be acceptable, all isn't lost if there is. The tracks can still be fixed mechanically for distance from the platform by lateral spacers, or concrete slabs attached to the platform footings. It's wild speculation at this point, but the platform gap will tell a lot. The situation may also be exacerbated by the subway bores going underneath there. Ironically, every time I come through there by subway, I look at the bore wall sections and think how stable or not the soil on the other side is (my intent was to consider parallel bores to the subway platform ends to connect walkways to the GO Bloor station.)