Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[junctionist]

Is it worth delaying this project to wait for electric trains? Yes, do it right the first time. There's no emergency that requires immediate action. Action for the long term is necessary, but delay of several years beats several decades of diesel. I'm speaking specifically for the Georgetown and Pearson corridor because of the massive expansion of services there. If we electrify now, in 30 years we might be talking about burying the corridor through urban Toronto. If we slow down the development of rail services, we'll merely be having the same discussion in 30 years, though the neighbourhoods around the line might be poorer and sicker by then.

Other lines will see fewer trains and may not need to be electrified.

 

[RedRocket191]

I humbly disagree, because

1) Laying the tracks now and improving GO service in the interim does not preclude electrification in the timeframe that Metrolinx has talked about.

2) The people along the Georgetown line deserve improved service as much as every other urban and suburban corridor in the GTA, and hatred of the ARL should not be taken out on these riders.

3) It would be foolish to say "Do not improve service on Don Mills / Jane / Hurontario because we'll be building LRT in the future."

I hear the concerns of the residents along the line, and I wouldn't want 400 diesel trains per day running through my community... But that's not what Metrolinx is planning to do. By the time we get to the demand for 400 trains the line will be long electrified. If the demand isn't there we won't have 400 trains of any type.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I humbly disagree, because

1) Laying the tracks now and improving GO service in the interim does not preclude electrification in the timeframe that Metrolinx has talked about.

Yes, but Go is going to be purchasing new Diesel locomotives as an alternative to electrification. Perhaps if they just kept the regular trains as the line experienced all day service and began to electrify the line once it's finished, then it'd be okay. But it doesn't, because they are investing in diesel, when the entire network will need to be electrified in reality.

 

[junctionist]

I humbly disagree, because

1) Laying the tracks now and improving GO service in the interim does not preclude electrification in the timeframe that Metrolinx has talked about.

2) The people along the Georgetown line deserve improved service as much as every other urban and suburban corridor in the GTA, and hatred of the ARL should not be taken out on these riders.

3) It would be foolish to say "Do not improve service on Don Mills / Jane / Hurontario because we'll be building LRT in the future."

I hear the concerns of the residents along the line, and I wouldn't want 400 diesel trains per day running through my community... But that's not what Metrolinx is planning to do. By the time we get to the demand for 400 trains the line will be long electrified. If the demand isn't there we won't have 400 trains of any type.

But we need to spend money wisely. We can't be new diesel trains and then electric trains shortly after. It would be like building an LRT DRL and then getting rid of it after 10 years and building a subway. The number of trains along the line is going to be frequent because the underlying belief is that a lot of trains have to be provided from the beginning to change people's transportation habits.

 

[RedRocket191]

A diesel locomotive has a life span of more than 30 years. They can be re-deployed to other corridors or sold to other operators.

I could agree with that argument if they were going to be thrown out in a decade or less, but they are going to be around for quite some time.

 

[Jaguar4u]

Yes, but Go is going to be purchasing new Diesel locomotives as an alternative to electrification. Perhaps if they just kept the regular trains as the line experienced all day service and began to electrify the line once it's finished, then it'd be okay. But it doesn't, because they are investing in diesel, when the entire network will need to be electrified in reality.

Agreed

 

[Jaguar4u]

But we need to spend money wisely. We can't be new diesel trains and then electric trains shortly after. It would be like building an LRT DRL and then getting rid of it after 10 years and building a subway. The number of trains along the line is going to be frequent because the underlying belief is that a lot of trains have to be provided from the beginning to change people's transportation habits.

I agree 100%

Our government is famous for spending money on new projects constantly after making so many mistakes.

They are always wasting our tax dollars.

 

[RedRocket191]

Yes, but Go is going to be purchasing new Diesel locomotives as an alternative to electrification. Perhaps if they just kept the regular trains as the line experienced all day service and began to electrify the line once it's finished, then it'd be okay. But it doesn't, because they are investing in diesel, when the entire network will need to be electrified in reality.

The diesel locomotives being purchased for the Georgetown line are the MP40's currently in service.

So what you just said is acceptable to you is what is actually going to happen.

 

[kettal]

I agree with Lakeshore Line being a priority. Then again, that is the one I use often. It bothers be that there are only 4 semi-express trains from Union to Hamilton, but Express busses go every 5 min most of the daytime hours.

Every 5 minutes? I wish. It runs every 30 minutes, and often is filled to dangerous levels.

 

[Jaguar4u]

The diesel locomotives being purchased for the Georgetown line are the MP40's currently in service.

So what you just said is acceptable to you is what is actually going to happen.

Actually no, they are contracting out a new supply of Diesel trains to be manufactured in Quebec.

Let's continue the great comments and ideas of our forum.

 

[kettal]

I wish Metrolinx would release an "electrification timeline" to the public, if only to shut some people up

 

[RedRocket191]

Actually no, they are contracting out a new supply of Diesel trains to be manufactured in Quebec. I would not be surprised if the deal maker has close personal ties to the government. This type of spending keeps on repeating in different areas. I wonder how many other deals have not been discovered. This is getting into another topic so I will stop it here.

Let's continue the great comments and ideas of our forum.

1) Are you alleging government corruption?

2) Are you talking about the ARL or the Georgetown Line? I'm talking about the Georgetown line.

3) If you're going to make allegations like that then you can't say "off topic, lets talk about something else".

4) @kettel - That's what the electrification study is for.

 

[Jaguar4u]

1) Are you alleging government corruption?

2) Are you talking about the ARL or the Georgetown Line? I'm talking about the Georgetown line.

3) If you're going to make allegations like that then you can't say "off topic, lets talk about something else".

4) @kettel - That's what the electrification study is for.

I will remove my comment on our government spending. My apologies.

Let's stay focused on positive and constructive solutions.

The first posts on this Thread makes my opinion clear, I hope.

All Trains should be converted to electric. Where to start is the decision all of us need to make, and hopefully get the government to follow our recommendations.

 

[hbl33]

Im not sure if all GO lines are electrified at the same time, but to me the most important lines to focus on are Lakeshore and Milton Lines. Highest ridership, most frequent service and besides that are also often utilized by CN and CP, respectively. Other lines can follow suit in a later time.

The first posts on this Thread makes my opinion clear, I hope.

All Trains should be converted to electric. Where to start is the decision all of us need to make, and hopefully get the government to follow our recommendations.

As for trains, is it possible to convert diesel to electric just by replacing diesel-dependent components with all-electric wiring inside, topped off with overhead wires? WHY not just get EMU instead?

 

[Second_in_pie]

Im not sure if all GO lines are electrified at the same time, but to me the most important lines to focus on are Lakeshore and Milton Lines. Highest ridership, most frequent service and besides that are also often utilized by CN and CP, respectively. Other lines can follow suit in a later time.



As for trains, is it possible to convert diesel to electric just by replacing diesel-dependent components with all-electric wiring inside, topped off with overhead wires? WHY not just get EMU instead?

Georgetown line's pretty high on there, since the ARL will be running on the same corridor.

I think that if you look at things from an international POV, all the Go lines should've been electrified a while ago. But I think that even with Stouffville and Barrie getting all day service, they should be getting electrified quickly as well.