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Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Erm? Brampton is not more densely populated than Mississauga.
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According to the RTP no GO line had densities higher than the Georgetown line....so the Georgetown line has greater potential...that is the point I was making...not that Brampton has higher densities than Mississauga....the line has higher densities than the Milton line.
 
Most of the Georgetown line goes through industrial areas that lie within the airport's operating boundary and thus can never have residential development. So I find it very hard to believe that it has the highest densities.
 
TOareaFan said:
According to the RTP no GO line had densities higher than the Georgetown line....so the Georgetown line has greater potential...that is the point I was making...not that Brampton has higher densities than Mississauga....the line has higher densities than the Milton line.
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Mississauga makes up the vast majority of the Milton line stops, and Brampton makes up a good portion of Georgetown stops. So if Mississauga is denser than Brampton, it follows that Milton is denser than Georgetown. You just can't get around that.
 
Surely more of the Georgetown stops are in Toronto than Brampton; so if Toronto is denser than Mississauga , it follows that Georgetown is denser than Milton. You just can't get around that.
 
I just recall reading (and being surprised, I must say) the section in the RTP where they talk about densities around the exisitng lines and the second highest density being the Georgetown GO line (if I recall correctly) with only (again subject to my recollection) the B-D subway having higher densities......so if my recollection is correct I am not playing the "guessing game" based on anecdotal life experiences....just recalling what the experts wrote!!!!
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
And the realignment of Milton through MCC should be seriously considered.
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kettal said:
I'm having a hard time imagining how this would be physically possible.
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It could look something like what this map suggests. This would only make sense if the line was electrified, service improved to every 20 mins or better, and fares integrated with Mississauga Transit and the TTC. The exact route and station locations are up for debate, but the concept is clear. (For example, I would have the tunnel start a bit further to the east and include a Cooksville station.)
 
Perhaps there is not a direct correlation between population density in a rail corridor and train ridership?

The number and location of the stations must have significant impact, as must the fact that some stations are easier to get to. Some rail lines simply serve larger geographical areas.

Here are the train ridership figures from GO Transit's '07-'08 Annual Report:

---snip---

Ridership – passenger trips
January to December 2007

Lakeshore West line.....14,052,900
Milton line....................6,319,700
Georgetown line............3,965,700
Barrie line.....................2,603,600
Richmond Hill line...........2,119,800
Stouffville line...............2,987,500
Lakeshore East line.......11,380,100
Total..........................43,429,300

---snip---

http://www.gotransit.com/PUBLIC/en/publications/gotransityearinreview2007-08.pdf

For whatever it's worth, I board the 4th of 6 morning Milton trains at Streetsville. More than half (say 55%) of the seats on that train are full with passengers who got on at Milton, Lisgar or Meadowvale. All seats are filled, and a few passengers are standing after Erindale and Cooksville. Passengers boarding at Dixie and Kipling must stand, even though a few people get off at Kipling. On the reverse trip (3rd of 6 evening trains) there are usually no empty seats past Streetsville.
 
Swamp Thing said:
For whatever it's worth, I board the 4th of 6 morning Milton trains at Streetsville. More than half (say 55%) of the seats on that train are full with passengers who got on at Milton, Lisgar or Meadowvale. All seats are filled, and a few passengers are standing after Erindale and Cooksville. Passengers boarding at Dixie and Kipling must stand, even though a few people get off at Kipling. On the reverse trip (3rd of 6 evening trains) there are usually no empty seats past Streetsville.
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This happens on every line in which residents who reside in Toronto continually get shafted by the 905ers. The subway system works the same that most cars are filled, sometimes to beyond capacity by the time they hit the old city of Toronto's borders during rush hour.

Is it time to look into local/express service or maybe for a system in which fares are based on mileage (not zone)?
 
Swamp Thing said:
Perhaps there is not a direct correlation between population density in a rail corridor and train ridership?

The number and location of the stations must have significant impact, as must the fact that some stations are easier to get to. Some rail lines simply serve larger geographical areas.

Here are the train ridership figures from GO Transit's '07-'08 Annual Report:

---snip---

Ridership – passenger trips
January to December 2007

Lakeshore West line.....14,052,900
Milton line....................6,319,700
Georgetown line............3,965,700
Barrie line.....................2,603,600
Richmond Hill line...........2,119,800
Stouffville line...............2,987,500
Lakeshore East line.......11,380,100
Total..........................43,429,300

---snip---

http://www.gotransit.com/PUBLIC/en/publications/gotransityearinreview2007-08.pdf

For whatever it's worth, I board the 4th of 6 morning Milton trains at Streetsville. More than half (say 55%) of the seats on that train are full with passengers who got on at Milton, Lisgar or Meadowvale. All seats are filled, and a few passengers are standing after Erindale and Cooksville. Passengers boarding at Dixie and Kipling must stand, even though a few people get off at Kipling. On the reverse trip (3rd of 6 evening trains) there are usually no empty seats past Streetsville.
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What got us into this quagmire discussion about densities though (and I apologize to all for that) was someone suggesting that, essntially, Milton should be upgraded before Georgetown given the higher ridership....my counter was that Georgetown had greater potential and that upgrades should be influenced by potential increases as much (maybe more) than existing ridership.
 
TOareaFan said:
What got us into this quagmire discussion about densities though (and I apologize to all for that) was someone suggesting that, essntially, Milton should be upgraded before Georgetown given the higher ridership....my counter was that Georgetown had greater potential and that upgrades should be influenced by potential increases as much (maybe more) than existing ridership.
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I've always thought that a better policy is to work on the pre-planning for all lines at once and move forward on each when it's ready. I don't think it's good policy to delay a shovel-ready project because it's not at the top of the shopping list.
 
nfitz said:
Surely more of the Georgetown stops are in Toronto than Brampton; so if Toronto is denser than Mississauga , it follows that Georgetown is denser than Milton. You just can't get around that.
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This got me to thinking. Once service improvements are in place with better frequencies on each line and the airport service stopping at Bloor GO, would it not make sense for Milton trains to start stopping there too? I understand that currently this does not happen due to capacity concerns, but surely with more frequent service these concerns will be diminished. Additionally, I wonder if it would make sense to extend the Bronte-Milton GO bus to Georgetown or the planned Acton GO station in order to connect the three lines in the West.
 
On the Georgetown line, I would imagine 70% of the customers get on from Brampton and Bramalea alone.

Malton is a growing station and will likely grow a lot in comming years. Etobicoke North cannot grow any more.
 
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