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Swamp Thing said:
Yes, GO Transit has stated that the Milton line is their 3rd busiest after Lakeshore West and Lakeshore East (or 2nd busiest if you consider the other two to be one line, which they are for all practical purposes).

GO Transit's plan to to provide all-day 2-way service on the Milton line. How soon they can begin that depends on how soon they can conclude ongoing negotiations to purchase track from CP (or CN?) and/or build a third set of tracks.
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There is no arguing current traffic/volumes on the Milton line.....there is a question, though, about how much growth there is left in the line given the relatively small populations and densitys on the line.

The Georgetown line has suffered from poorer service levels so traffic has not developed and, also, the fact that there is another GO service that takes people to other parts of Toronto (the buses to York Mills and Yorkdale)...if you combine that ridership with the train line it looks better.

All that aside, though, we really need to look at potential to raise revenue and increase ridership and Georgetown line has that in spades over any other line.

Major trip generators like no other line has (airport, race track/casino, ex/ontario place/ricoh/bmo..if you build a Liberty Village stop) combined with large/dense populations (I believe the Mlinx report showed only the B-D subway had higher densities) gives the potential to actually recoup a greater share of the costs of the expansion.

Just one man's opinion.....sure they should all be expanded...but I have no problem with Georgetown going first.....regardless of current ridership levels
 
TOareaFan said:
There is no arguing current traffic/volumes on the Milton line.....there is a question, though, about how much growth there is left in the line given the relatively small populations and densitys on the line.
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Milton made headlines a year or so ago for being the fastest-growing urban area in Canada according to Statistics Canada, because the town's population jumped about 70 per cent in only five years, and is expected to do the same in the next five (though the current state of the economy may set that back a bit). And there's plenty of land there left to develop. (Not to mention the fact that the line could potentially extend to Cambridge and K-W.)

Sure, there is pent-up demand in the Georgetown line, but that is true of all lines other than the blessed Lakeshore Lines.
 
Milton is a bit of an oddity. For years council blocked any growth, through zoning, and also by not putting any infrastructure in place that could allow growth. Eventually the OMB overruled them, and this pent-up explosion of growth occurred.

But how much of the Milton train get's on in Milton; I've always assumed much of it was from Mississauga.
 
Swamp Thing said:
Milton made headlines a year or so ago for being the fastest-growing urban area in Canada according to Statistics Canada, because the town's population jumped about 70 per cent in only five years, and is expected to do the same in the next five (though the current state of the economy may set that back a bit). And there's plenty of land there left to develop. (Not to mention the fact that the line could potentially extend to Cambridge and K-W.)

Sure, there is pent-up demand in the Georgetown line, but that is true of all lines other than the blessed Lakeshore Lines.
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Statistics....Statistics....Statistics.

Between the 2001 and the 2006 census...Milton grew by 71.40%.

Let's compare that to a city on the Georgetown line...since I am familiar with it I will pick Brampton!


Brampton's growth during that time was only 33.30%!!!

So, newspapers being what they are, the headlines read "Milton Fastest Growoing Community in Canada!"

Problem was....Milton grew by exactly 22,468 people!

The headline really could have said "Brampton growing at 5 times the rate of Milton"....cause their population grew by 108,378. Put another way....the new people (the growth) in Brampton was twice as many people as there currently are residing in Milton (total including that phenominal 70% growth!).
 
nfitz said:
Milton is a bit of an oddity. For years council blocked any growth, through zoning, and also by not putting any infrastructure in place that could allow growth. Eventually the OMB overruled them, and this pent-up explosion of growth occurred.

But how much of the Milton train get's on in Milton; I've always assumed much of it was from Mississauga.
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Milton's growth got stagnated by a couple of things.....being a bit of an outlier community it was where the affordability edge was during the real estate boom of the late 80's....when the crash hit and people didn't need to go as far to afford a house people stopped looking there.

Around the same time (and this may be what you were alluding to) there was a massive issue about extending the pipe....for quite a while they really were maxed out in terms of being able to supply water and sewage.

It was more a fight over who should/would pay for the pipe extension.

I don't know who gets on where but yes there are stations in Mississauga just as there are on the lakeshore line and the Georgetown line.

What the Milton line does not have are any major trip drivers outside of the commuter.....if GO has serious intentions of becoming more than a commuter service and a full regional rail line with people moving back and forth throughout the days and weeks.....Georgetown line has way more potential.

BTW.....the terminus community on the Georgetown line (Georgetown surprisingly) still has a higher population than Milton!
 
TOareaFan said:
BTW.....the terminus community on the Georgetown line (Georgetown surprisingly) still has a higher population than Milton!
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Not according to Wikipedia, which puts Georgetown at just under 37,000 in 2006, and Milton at about 54,000. And the impression I get driving around the too, is that Milton is bigger. I expect you are looking at an estimate which includes Acton as well, which is a separate community.
 
nfitz said:
Not according to Wikipedia, which puts Georgetown at just under 37,000 in 2006, and Milton at about 54,000. And the impression I get driving around the too, is that Milton is bigger. I expect you are looking at an estimate which includes Acton as well, which is a separate community.
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No....when I quote census figures I go right to the source....statscan!!!

Georgetown (Halton Hills) has a population of 55,289 as of the 2006 Census.

Milton has fastly grown to 53,939 in the same census. For matters like this, I find Statscan to be slightly more credible than Wiki!
 
nfitz said:
And that includes other towns - especially Acton. Georgetown isn't that big.
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For the purposes of the Census it is....and since so much of our government funding is based on the census....that is how it goes.

Besides I am reasonably sure there are other small "communities" included in Milton's population (too lazy to check but fairly sure) and, besides, anyone commuting from those towns you point out would be using the Georgetown Go Train station anyway....so, perhaps, the urban "core" of the Town of Halton Hills is not as large as "Milton" but the census population is.

It is a bit like arguing over the population of the GTA.....everyone will have a different definition.....so I just use the one that my tax dollars paid for!

Anyway...it is taking the discussion a bit "off" the point was, simply, that Milton has benefited from a lot of free press about its huge growth when, frankly, it hasn't grown that much and probably won't. Whereas a city like my home town which has added 5 times as many people in the same period of time suffers from the impression that growth has slowed because that "only" represents 33% growth.

So, to end the whole Georgetown v Milton thing, I will give you that Milton is much larger just to move off the topic ;)
 
EnviroTO said:
In the corridor south of the Humber River this whole thing needs a phased approach but the EA should be about getting approval for the final condition, not somewhere in between. The section north of the Humber River has no real issues.

STEP 1...
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Now, how do we get things changed to do this? Is it too late?
 
Komiksulo said:
Now, how do we get things changed to do this? Is it too late?
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If enough people annoy/petition local councillors and local MPPs as well as voice their opinions in the EA meetings it is never too late. Now whether or not enough opposition/support can get organized to push the issue is another question. The problem is that some of the opposition is complaining about the number of trains which instantly labels the opposition as NIMBY because obviously a lot of trains means success at reducing car trips and providing convenient transit which should be the goal. Also there is some opposition trying to turn the route into a local line which is the goal of the Jane LRT nearby and not a heavy rail connection where GO, VIA, and AirRail runs. As long as there isn't a coherent message coming from the opponents of the current plan there isn't much hope.
 
TOareaFan said:
For the purposes of the Census it is....and since so much of our government funding is based on the census....that is how it goes.

Besides I am reasonably sure there are other small "communities" included in Milton's population (too lazy to check but fairly sure) and, besides, anyone commuting from those towns you point out would be using the Georgetown Go Train station anyway....so, perhaps, the urban "core" of the Town of Halton Hills is not as large as "Milton" but the census population is.

It is a bit like arguing over the population of the GTA.....everyone will have a different definition.....so I just use the one that my tax dollars paid for!

Anyway...it is taking the discussion a bit "off" the point was, simply, that Milton has benefited from a lot of free press about its huge growth when, frankly, it hasn't grown that much and probably won't. Whereas a city like my home town which has added 5 times as many people in the same period of time suffers from the impression that growth has slowed because that "only" represents 33% growth.

So, to end the whole Georgetown v Milton thing, I will give you that Milton is much larger just to move off the topic ;)
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Advice: if you want credibility to your argument, quit referring to Halton Hills as "Georgetown". In practice, it's like referring to Vaughan as "Woodbridge".

The reason being that Halton Hills is truly "bicentral" in a way Milton isn't, i.e. Acton's always been a sizeable place, it already had 5000 people at the time of amalgamation 35 odd years ago and was even of the same size or bigger before Georgetown's Delrex-development SE expansion starting in the 50s. Whereas the urbanity in present-day Milton has historically *all* been about Milton; everything else is or has been rural fringe, with the closest thing to a "second centre" being the hamlet of Campbellville...
 
TOareaFan said:
There is no arguing current traffic/volumes on the Milton line.....there is a question, though, about how much growth there is left in the line given the relatively small populations and densitys on the line.
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Relatively small population and density on the Milton line? Compared to where, exactly? It's most likely as high as Lakeshore. I took the Lakeshore line to the TFC game recently, and it's actually quite surprising how low-density a lot of Southern Mississauga is. There is a lot of density along Milton's route. Of course when I refer to Milton, I mean Mississauga, since the vast majority of Milton's ridership comes from the Mississauga stations (Dixie, Cooksville, Erindale, Streetsville, Meadowvale, Lisgar). Kipling is woefully underused, and I can't speak for the only other station, Milton itself.

If Milton had the same service as Lakeshore, I'd bet it's ridership per station would be as-high or higher than Lakeshore. Lakeshore passes through only two Mississauga city wards (1 and 2), whereas Milton passes through seven (1, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11).

I agree with the Georgetown improvements. I just want the same kind of treatment for Milton. And the realignment of Milton through MCC should be seriously considered.
 
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