TOareaFan
Superstar
Not just GO...people on the TTC do it all the time too on those bus routes that require a double fare.
To be clear.....the premium service is not $5 more...it is ~$2 more unless the TTC bus is somehow free.
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
Not just GO...people on the TTC do it all the time too on those bus routes that require a double fare.
To be clear.....the premium service is not $5 more...it is ~$2 more unless the TTC bus is somehow free.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Stop trying to turn UP into something it's not. It is a Airport Express service (kinda, now that there is a stop at Weston) not a RER service. It's not even close to the type of service that you would expect from an RER line, the closest thing we have to RER is on the Lakeshore lines
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Why not consider the UPX as a precursor to RER or ST? It's current endeavour to be a business class express to Union has been a dismal failure. Even Metrolinx has acknowledged that by cutting the fares in half.
None of you guys have put up an argument as to why a trial fare integration would not be a good idea. What harm can it do? The travelling public sure isn't going to bitch about it and it won't make a hoot of difference to the TTC. Some may say that the trains will become to crowded......so what? I for one would rather stand packed on a quick and comfortable train than stand packed on a subway & bus for twice the time.
RER is suppose to be a system that Torontonians will use as GO is strictly 905. Here's an opportunity to not only see if these untold billions are going to be money well spent but also to gauge it's impact on the current system.
The only ones who it will cost money is Metrolinx and that makes the assumption that no more riders will take the system than they do now. I wouldn't be surprised if revenues for the UPX actually go up as revenue per passenger will decline but this could be made up by more passengers taking the line. Metrolinx has absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain including an improvement in it's lousy reputation.
None of you guys have put up an argument as to why a trial fare integration would not be a good idea. What harm can it do? The travelling public sure isn't going to bitch about it and it won't make a hoot of difference to the TTC. Some may say that the trains will become to crowded......so what? I for one would rather stand packed on a quick and comfortable train than stand packed on a subway & bus for twice the time.
RER is suppose to be a system that Torontonians will use as GO is strictly 905. Here's an opportunity to not only see if these untold billions are going to be money well spent but also to gauge it's impact on the current system.
The only ones who it will cost money is Metrolinx and that makes the assumption that no more riders will take the system than they do now. I wouldn't be surprised if revenues for the UPX actually go up as revenue per passenger will decline but this could be made up by more passengers taking the line. Metrolinx has absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain including an improvement in it's lousy reputation.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Maybe they will when you actually put up an argument yourself. All you ever say is UP is a "dismal failure" and demand that they charge a TTC fare. Then go on to make a long-winded post about how the line can be electrified at the snap of a finger.
So don't expect anyone to seriously engage in conversation with you. I know I've avoided it.
crs1026
Superstar
We need to not throw out the baby with the bath water.
UPE is, and needs to be, primarily a quick (and reasonably priced) ride to the airport.
Adding the local riders is good in the short term, in terms of building revenue, and building interest in intra-416 commuting. But eventually the 416 commuting belongs on RER (with appropriate stops inside the 416). And we don't need bad travel press out there to the effect of "UPE goes to the airport, but there are so many local commuters it's a drag to ride". GO/ML need to get on with finishing RER, not resting on their oars while they tinker with UPE.
It is not a good place to be everybody's test tube. History is what it is, but UPE ain't as broke anymore - so don't fix it further.
- Paul
UPE is, and needs to be, primarily a quick (and reasonably priced) ride to the airport.
Adding the local riders is good in the short term, in terms of building revenue, and building interest in intra-416 commuting. But eventually the 416 commuting belongs on RER (with appropriate stops inside the 416). And we don't need bad travel press out there to the effect of "UPE goes to the airport, but there are so many local commuters it's a drag to ride". GO/ML need to get on with finishing RER, not resting on their oars while they tinker with UPE.
It is not a good place to be everybody's test tube. History is what it is, but UPE ain't as broke anymore - so don't fix it further.
- Paul
cbrown2009
Active Member
Agreed. Still need to implement the 7 day 2 way train service to Mount Pleasant, among other promised service rollouts. The situation (traffic) on the roads is steadily growing worse and non-road (rail) options, especially now on the Kitchener Line where the bulk of the core work is done, is a must. Not another 6 months or a year or 2 from now, but now.
PMT
Senior Member
John Street pedestrian bridge is open in Weston
York Guardian
The John Street pedestrian bridge in Weston has opened.
Metrolinx opened the bridge Thursday afternoon.
The wait for the opening is a result of negotiations between Metrolinx, the provincial transit planning agency, and the City of Toronto.
“We finally received a tentative operating agreement with the city,” Metrolinx spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins said in an email.
The pedestrian bridge crosses the Georgetown South corridor rail tracks, just north of the Weston Road and Lawrence Avenue West intersection.
The pedestrian bridge is part of a $300-million transit investment that Metrolinx made in Weston, which will benefit residents and local businesses for generations to come, the agency said.
“We worked with the community on an international design competition for the bridge and are excited for it to open as an important connection for communities living on either side of the rail corridor,” Metrolinx said.
“When we build community projects like pedestrian bridges or parks, we work with our municipal partners to secure operating agreements are in place. Safety is our first priority so we need to ensure the bridge is properly maintained.”
The bridge was opened under an interim agreement.
York Guardian
The John Street pedestrian bridge in Weston has opened.
Metrolinx opened the bridge Thursday afternoon.
The wait for the opening is a result of negotiations between Metrolinx, the provincial transit planning agency, and the City of Toronto.
“We finally received a tentative operating agreement with the city,” Metrolinx spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins said in an email.
The pedestrian bridge crosses the Georgetown South corridor rail tracks, just north of the Weston Road and Lawrence Avenue West intersection.
The pedestrian bridge is part of a $300-million transit investment that Metrolinx made in Weston, which will benefit residents and local businesses for generations to come, the agency said.
“We worked with the community on an international design competition for the bridge and are excited for it to open as an important connection for communities living on either side of the rail corridor,” Metrolinx said.
“When we build community projects like pedestrian bridges or parks, we work with our municipal partners to secure operating agreements are in place. Safety is our first priority so we need to ensure the bridge is properly maintained.”
The bridge was opened under an interim agreement.
junctionist
Senior Member
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Moral hazard is now a bunch of people are unaware it is now open, having long ago given up trying to cross it.
Someone needs to write the Weston area community newspapers to spread the word about this overpass.
Someone needs to write the Weston area community newspapers to spread the word about this overpass.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Observed UPX southbound at Bloor around 9am while waiting for northbound GO to Malton. Seat occupancy seemed high from what I could see through the windows, and that's before the folks waiting at Bloor were added.
salsa
Senior Member
A colourful new mural has been added to the Metrolinx wall near Dundas & Dupont.
https://twitter.com/StART_Toronto/status/794964385819217920
https://twitter.com/StART_Toronto/status/794964385819217920
Attachments
cplchanb
Senior Member
Ben Spurr@BenSpurr
7 mins ago
Ridership on UPX went up 20% last quarter, to 9,100 a day. http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20161208/20161208_BoardMtg_CEC_Update_EN.pdf
I'm interested in knowing how their bottom line is. Have they managed to break even on fare revenue vs ridership yet with their latest figures?
rbt
Senior Member
That'll depend mostly on the expenses side because that first year required a 75% operating subsidy ($50+ per trip). It still feels like a staff heavy operation to me (Pearson platform, Union platform, and on-train staff).
On the revenue side they're certainly doing better with the new pricing but more passengers has a higher cost too, just for processing credit card transactions if nothing else.
You can be certain their per-trip subsidy isn't in the $50 range now. I doubt it's fallen below $8 yet though.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
They're on record as stating they will never break-even, let alone make a profit on this line. That being said, UPX as it now functions proves the necessity for instituting a form of RER even before RER is actually rolled out. Everyone is happier at UPX that the ridership is much better.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Let's hope that Metrolinx learns something from this.......revenues can increase and subsidies decline when you lower the fares.
This clearly proves that people are very price sensitive. This idea of "build it and they will come" is a fallacy if the fares are too high. All the service in the world doesn't make any difference to most people if they can't afford it. This is something that they should keep in mind when they roll out RER. If the trains are as pricey as they are now, it will have little effect hopeful ridership increases.
UPX, at 15 minute intervals, is essential a RER type service. Rising ridership is wonderful but when you consider that only 23% of the riders are commuters not bound for Pearson, that doesn't speak well for potential RER ridership. Imagine how the UPX numbers would soar, especially by commuters and Pearson workers, if Metrolinx brought in further reductions on the line by having total fare integration with the TTC. All of a sudden, the trip from Weston to downtown would drop from $5 plus TTC to $5 minus TTC. Not only would this soar ridership but also would be useful for people who don't live right beside a GO station and aren't just going to Union.
UPX proves that fares matter a lot and the fares & fare integration with local transit services will determine whether RER is a dismal failure or a stellar success.
This clearly proves that people are very price sensitive. This idea of "build it and they will come" is a fallacy if the fares are too high. All the service in the world doesn't make any difference to most people if they can't afford it. This is something that they should keep in mind when they roll out RER. If the trains are as pricey as they are now, it will have little effect hopeful ridership increases.
UPX, at 15 minute intervals, is essential a RER type service. Rising ridership is wonderful but when you consider that only 23% of the riders are commuters not bound for Pearson, that doesn't speak well for potential RER ridership. Imagine how the UPX numbers would soar, especially by commuters and Pearson workers, if Metrolinx brought in further reductions on the line by having total fare integration with the TTC. All of a sudden, the trip from Weston to downtown would drop from $5 plus TTC to $5 minus TTC. Not only would this soar ridership but also would be useful for people who don't live right beside a GO station and aren't just going to Union.
UPX proves that fares matter a lot and the fares & fare integration with local transit services will determine whether RER is a dismal failure or a stellar success.