Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Hey that's cool!

Ya, I don't know how they came up with the orange/greeny colour............always reminded me of our fridge from the 70s.
 
Palma said:
and you think there is no truth to it
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DBFOM developments are used worldwide. They work really well to the extent that you have defined your expectations up front and do not change them as time passes. Just like a reno on your house. Fix the specs to the type of nail and the price will be on budget. But change your mind and watch the contractor kill you on price.

The Liberals are almost as bad at projects than the TTC. The projects listed in the poster cost money because they changed the specs at the last minute, had open ended contracts and did not properly audit the progress/status.

Look at Spadina. That's what we get when we let the TTC run (or ruin) a project. Compare this to ion in K-W. You may say it's less complicated...then look at Ottawa's Confederation line. I'd take both K-W and Ottawa's progress over Spadina any day.

The TTC may fight it but any new major project will NOT be given to a city-owned operator (and to be quite honest do you blame the province?). That means less control by the unions leadership and more accountability to the standards set out in the contract that was signed. The union can try to unionize the new operator but we as taxpayers don't care since the price has been fixed and it is the operator that will have to absorb any change in the cost structure due to the unionization.
 
Just an FYI, rode UPX yesterday and they're handing out free ride vouchers that expire in 1 year. Nice way to immediately share the fare reduction with riders.
 
muller877 said:
DBFOM developments are used worldwide. They work really well to the extent that you have defined your expectations up front and do not change them as time passes. Just like a reno on your house. Fix the specs to the type of nail and the price will be on budget. But change your mind and watch the contractor kill you on price.

The Liberals are almost as bad at projects than the TTC. The projects listed in the poster cost money because they changed the specs at the last minute, had open ended contracts and did not properly audit the progress/status.

Look at Spadina. That's what we get when we let the TTC run (or ruin) a project. Compare this to ion in K-W. You may say it's less complicated...then look at Ottawa's Confederation line. I'd take both K-W and Ottawa's progress over Spadina any day.

The TTC may fight it but any new major project will NOT be given to a city-owned operator (and to be quite honest do you blame the province?). That means less control by the unions leadership and more accountability to the standards set out in the contract that was signed. The union can try to unionize the new operator but we as taxpayers don't care since the price has been fixed and it is the operator that will have to absorb any change in the cost structure due to the unionization.
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the same province with the Ornge, gas plant, e-health scandals, with billions lost; contracts to private contractors to clear snow on highways, did not, owe the gov't millions of dollars, crazy contract and are not paying up and now the gov;'t is begging for them to go to arbitration. Lets not forget making decisions like scaborough subway only to win seats.

The people that should be in charge at the city level is the TTC of where transit should go cause they run the system and know which routes are busy and they are not beholden to anyone of where to put subways and where bus and LRT is more appropriate. TTC should work in conjunction with planning. Councillors are politically motivated. I would also say if Metrolinx had autonomy, but we know when there was pressure from Ministry of Transp and gov't, they dropped fares. Though I did not agree with the fares, I did realize (putting aside my own motivations for wanting it to be a commuter line), that the UPX should be given more time, marketing, specials, etc to increase ridership. But Metrolinx is closely governed by the gov't
 
kyler said:
Just an FYI, rode UPX yesterday and they're handing out free ride vouchers that expire in 1 year. Nice way to immediately share the fare reduction with riders.
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Interesting! Will have to get these vouchers.

I wish they chose this pricing before PanAm. It would have fit better and reduced risk of damaging GO RER politics. They may have raised the chances of Conservative Party sabotage of GO electrification. Metrolinx has better sensibility when it comes to plain 'ol GO trains, RER and the sensible electrification initiative but UPX politics might be the white elephant in the room come 2018.

We transit enthusiasts have to advocate as well as we can for the RER, even if we have to play along (agree or disagree) with branding shenanigans such as "SmartTrack" being the name of the Bramalea-Stoufville allstop RER route. As long as the elements are sensible (keep ECLRT for Eglinton onwards to the airport!)

Potential silver lining: The first Metrolinx LRTs will work hard to avoid the mistakes of UPX. With how differently they treat GO versus UPX, hopefully figuratively speaking, there is enough firewall built up between UPX executives and LRT managers. Not everything Metrolinx does is bad, but that firewall (between UPX and LRT) needs to be fireproof, waterproof and impermeable, scandal proofed as much as possible, and fares as transit friendly as possible.
 
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Does anyone else think Union Pearson express needs to be rebranded as a premium TTC service with an Airport surcharge to the regular fare?

Branding alone could be a big boost to this train.

When tourists are visiting a city, the first and immediate thing they probably look for online for transport information is from www.ttc.ca. The presence of any information for the Union Pearson Express just doesn't exist on the website. Look at this page:
http://ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Airport_service.jsp

Bringing the UP Express into the TTC could boost numbers dramatically just from exposure from the TTC's maps and exposure.
 
wilson_wu said:
Does anyone else think Union Pearson express needs to be rebranded as a premium TTC service with an Airport surcharge to the regular fare?

Branding alone could be a big boost to this train.

When tourists are visiting a city, the first and immediate thing they probably look for online for transport information is from www.ttc.ca. The presence of any information for the Union Pearson Express just doesn't exist on the website. Look at this page:
http://ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Airport_service.jsp

Bringing the UP Express into the TTC could boost numbers dramatically just from exposure from the TTC's maps and exposure.
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You think tourists visiting the city know that the city's transit system is called TTC and that they look for a route in from the airport to the city by typing in ttc.ca

I bet if they search online they use searches similar to this " ground transportation at toronto airport" "getting from toronto airport to city centre".
 
TOareaFan said:
You think tourists visiting the city know that the city's transit system is called TTC and that they look for a route in from the airport to the city by typing in ttc.ca

I bet if they search online they use searches similar to this " ground transportation at toronto airport" "getting from toronto airport to city centre".
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I typically start with my hotels website which almost always has a "how to get here ..." section, including "... from the airport". In North America I'm looking for a typical taxi fare or airport shuttle. Lets look at a couple of our larger hotels.

Sheraton features UP Express very prominently but doesn't actually call it an "Airport Train" on the menu (under Location, standard place to find Travel Directions for Starwood).

http://www.sheratontoronto.com/up-express-service

Hilton doesn't mention it at all.

http://www3.hilton.com/en/hotels/ontario/hilton-toronto-TORHIHH/maps-directions/index.html

Actually, given their concierge couldn't be bothered to fill in rough prices for most options, I'd tend not to stay there; and I'm Hilton Diamond this year too. I lean pretty hard on the concierge for local knowledge that Google doesn't easily provide.
 
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TOareaFan said:
You think tourists visiting the city know that the city's transit system is called TTC and that they look for a route in from the airport to the city by typing in ttc.ca

I bet if they search online they use searches similar to this " ground transportation at toronto airport" "getting from toronto airport to city centre".
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Tourists also need ways to get around the city, and many of them use public transportation for that, so I wouldn't be surprised if they end up on the TTC website. They don't only care about getting from the airport to their hotel.
 
What seems like common knowledge to Torontonians maybe completely foreign concepts to visitors. Look at Tokyo - a myriad of operators and services, and multiple ways to get to/from the airports. Do I take the Monorail or the Keiku Airport Line from Haneda? Oh, it doesn't go to the Central Station? So now what? Etc.

They may not know that "Subway = TTC" and "Commuter Rail = GO" and so on. I suppose the impetus is on them to do a little bit of research ahead of time, or just ask one of the (many!) staff members around.

Putting UPX under the GO or TTC branding would eliminate another layer of confusion to passengers. I do like the signage that says "Trains to Union" (or something along those lines - I don't remember it exactly). It's not bad, but it could always be a little better.
 
rbt said:
I typically start with my hotels website which almost always has a "how to get here ..." section, including "... from the airport". In North America I'm looking for a typical taxi fare or airport shuttle. Lets look at a couple of our larger hotels.
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the google searches I showed above are pretty standard for what I do when first visiting a city. I find that hotel searches can be spotty in terms of their "how do we get there" searches. Some are done years ago when the web page was first done and not updated and some are just "we are at the corner of walk and don't walk, I am sure you will find us.

rbt said:
Hilton doesn't mention it at all.

http://www3.hilton.com/en/hotels/ontario/hilton-toronto-TORHIHH/maps-directions/index.html
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They could just cut and paste from the Hilton Garden Inn on Peter Street.

http://hiltongardeninn3.hilton.com/...o-downtown-YYZDTGI/maps-directions/index.html
 
Duck said:
What seems like common knowledge to Torontonians maybe completely foreign concepts to visitors. Look at Tokyo - a myriad of operators and services, and multiple ways to get to/from the airports. Do I take the Monorail or the Keiku Airport Line from Haneda? Oh, it doesn't go to the Central Station? So now what? Etc.
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And of course, both of those are separate from JR and the two main subway companies, so you have to exit those, and find the entrance to the next line for your journey. At least Tokyo rail services are all fare-by-distance, with relatively small base fares, so transferring between companies isn't as punishing as the GO/TTC/UPX transfers are.
 
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