Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[ksun]

We have public transit to the airport -- an express bus that runs at a higher average speed than the subway. We don't have rail transit to the airport, but I don't honestly see why what kind of wheels it runs on are super relevant. If the Eglinton Crosstown is extended west it probably wouldn't be any faster than the subway + 192 combo, even after factoring in the transfer time.

you should know that it is not just about speed. Convenience is important too. People travelling to the airport normally have luggages, sometimes big ones, and the two subway + bus model doesn't sound appealing.

Additionally, the express bus runs faster than the subway only because it has few stops while the BD lines has a crap load of stops every 400 meters, so will the future Eglinton Line. If the DB/Eg line is extended with the same number of stops as the 192, I am sure it will be faster.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We have public transit to the airport -- an express bus that runs at a higher average speed than the subway. We don't have rail transit to the airport, but I don't honestly see why what kind of wheels it runs on are super relevant. If the Eglinton Crosstown is extended west it probably wouldn't be any faster than the subway + 192 combo, even after factoring in the transfer time.

I disagree. Not everyone wants to haul to Saint George or Bloor-Yonge just to go to the airport.

 

[Platform 27]

you should know that it is not just about speed. Convenience is important too. People travelling to the airport normally have luggages, sometimes big ones, and the two subway + bus model doesn't sound appealing.

If you're travelling to the airport with luggage, then you just bought a plane ticket worth multiple hundreds of dollars. You're clearly a person of means. If you want to make sure there's plenty of room for you to stow that luggage and no need to ever transfer and no escalators and fancy schmancy consoles to check your bag then why the heck should a whole bunch of people who can't afford plane tickets pay taxes to bring your fare down to $3?

Additionally, the express bus runs faster than the subway only because it has few stops while the BD lines has a crap load of stops every 400 meters, so will the future Eglinton Line. If the DB/Eg line is extended with the same number of stops as the 192, I am sure it will be faster.

Except that's not on the table. If Eglinton is ever extended, it will stop a lot. And why shouldn't it, if UP is also there to meet the needs of the "speed to airport is really important" crowd?

We're getting one new transit line to the airport that doesn't have many stops and is designed primarily to be convenient for air travellers, but may be priced highly. It sounds to me like your proposed solution is a second transit line to the airport that doesn't have many stops and is designed primarily to be convenient for air travellers, but is priced at $3.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think the part of the city council motion from this week that bothers me the most is the ask for more stations.

It could be argued that since ML has not firmed up prices, the recent media might have just alerted them to the idea that the prices might be higher than they thought (maybe)....but this thing has been under construction for a long time (and in pre-construction development for years before that) and was actually intended to have one less stop than is currently being built (Weston was a late addition)....any councillor who now acts surprised/angry/indignant that there are so few spots deserves to be asked "what have you been doing for those years?" and told "the time to influence what is being built was before construction started....not months before it is completed".

 

[ehlow]

I think the part of the city council motion from this week that bothers me the most is the ask for more stations.

It could be argued that since ML has not firmed up prices, the recent media might have just alerted them to the idea that the prices might be higher than they thought (maybe)....but this thing has been under construction for a long time (and in pre-construction development for years before that) and was actually intended to have one less stop than is currently being built (Weston was a late addition)....any councillor who now acts surprised/angry/indignant that there are so few spots deserves to be asked "what have you been doing for those years?" and told "the time to influence what is being built was before construction started....not months before it is completed".

I think they also asked for more stops years ago and were ignored then. They know they won't get as many ask they asked for (which is a huge amount).

Having said that, in this case adding a couple of more stops years after the line has opened is definitely possible, and based on what Metrolinx has said, I think it's extremely likely that Eglinton will get an additional stop. That's probably the only one though.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think they also asked for more stops years ago and were ignored then. They know they won't get as many ask they asked for (which is a huge amount).

I don't recall city council discussing this at all....but if you say so.

Having said that, in this case adding a couple of more stops years after the line has opened is definitely possible, and based on what Metrolinx has said, I think it's extremely likely that Eglinton will get an additional stop. That's probably the only one though.

I am totally lost by that statement...seems to say "won't get the stops they ask for....but definitely possible they could get two.....but will likely only get the one that ML already has in the planning stages".

 

[ssiguy2]

But whether there are options to the airport {which clearly there are such as the bus} or whether it's worth it to you to take it or not or even if you can afford it, that doesn't answer the question..............what happens if it isn't breaking even?

Whether Metrolinx charge $5, $10, $20, $30, $100 or offers if free doesn't answer the question that needs to be answered and right away......if the line isn't breaking even will it simply stop running? Metrolinx has said it won't give them a subsidy, god knows Toronto won't {nor should they} so what happens? Let's say they loose $500k in the first year, where do they get the money to continue operating? If this is being treated as a private line it should go belly-up like any other business. In BC there have been several attempts at high speed passenger only ferry service between Nanaimo and Downtown Vancouver all of which have failed as BC Ferries won't subsidize them. They went bankrupt and on the chopping block as there were alternatives such as regular ferry service. The fares, in todays dollars, would be about $25 one way and the difference in speed between the regular ferries and the fast ones was greater than what it will be between transit and UPX.

If they end the year in the red and can't get a private loan to keep going then what happens...............Metrolinx does not have to wait to announce fares to explain this and the public {who paid for the line} have the right to know, right now.

 

[ssiguy2]

Meant to add about Queen's Park not wanting to electrify the line.

I know that Georgetown is set for electrification but I mean to electrification of the spur line to the airport. If there is a back lash about the fares, Queen's Park won't be eager to electrify the line for the business classes when that money could be used elsewhere and why should they as politically it would be a liability.

 

[TOareaFan]

Metrolinx has said it won't give them a subsidy, god knows Toronto won't {nor should they} so what happens? Let's say they loose $500k in the first year, where do they get the money to continue operating? If this is being treated as a private line it should go belly-up like any other business.

Have they said it has to break even or else? I think I remember them saying the goal is to cover costs but I don't recall anywhere seeing them say it has to break even.

So is the bolded part above (like "this is not public transit" and "fares will be $20 - $30") just another exaggeration by extrapolation that some have made. Where is the quote for that?

 

[ksun]

If you're travelling to the airport with luggage, then you just bought a plane ticket worth multiple hundreds of dollars. You're clearly a person of means. If you want to make sure there's plenty of room for you to stow that luggage and no need to ever transfer and no escalators and fancy schmancy consoles to check your bag then why the heck should a whole bunch of people who can't afford plane tickets pay taxes to bring your fare down to $3?


Except that's not on the table. If Eglinton is ever extended, it will stop a lot. And why shouldn't it, if UP is also there to meet the needs of the "speed to airport is really important" crowd?

We're getting one new transit line to the airport that doesn't have many stops and is designed primarily to be convenient for air travellers, but may be priced highly. It sounds to me like your proposed solution is a second transit line to the airport that doesn't have many stops and is designed primarily to be convenient for air travellers, but is priced at $3.

I never said UPE should charge $3. I have always said $20 would be appropriate. And no discount to anyone except bulk purchasing. I don't understand the need to provide discount to families or students or seniors. If they afford travelling, they can afford the train tickets.

I was saying the "public transit" you mentioned to the airport is pretty insufficient. For most visitors saving 30 minutes is not that important, but having board a bus and two subways sounds pretty exhausting. It takes 45 minutes to take the blue line from downtown Chicago to O'Hara, with no transfer involved, and I would say that's the most ideal option.

 

[rbt]

It wouldn't be unreasonable to have something like the following pricing:

Single one-way trip: $28
Two-way trip purchased in advance (for most tourists): $46
10 pack (one-way trips): $148
Monthly Cap for Presto users: $298

The monthly cap works out to $7.45 per trip for 20 working days which if you really do live at Maple Leaf Square and work at the airport might be worth considering. Pearson could offer a staff-only discount to remove the $3 fee the airport charges.

 

[drum118]

Time for a new thread related to the fare, as this thread is out of control and not dealing with what is taking place along the line.

Not worth my time to visit the thread these days, as it the same crap regarding fares. I even refused to post photos here these days.

The photos for the July 28 4th bridge placement for Old Weston Rd are now on line on my site as I hope to have them up before going on Holidays, but too many in front of them.

 

[RogerB]

Not worth my time to visit the thread these days, as it the same crap regarding fares.

While, fares may be a tangent, in this case in particular, they will determine the line's utility.
A line that could easily have 10x the riders, is proposed to waste a half billion (electrification next), for just 5,000 daily riders (Metrolinx estimate).
I have yet to hear the government provide a coherent rationale for why this line is expected to cover costs, while other public transit and roads do not. This is a publicly built line, using important but limited public corridors & stations.

 

[pstogios]

Time for a new thread related to the fare, as this thread is out of control and not dealing with what is taking place along the line.

Not worth my time to visit the thread these days, as it the same crap regarding fares. I even refused to post photos here these days.

Since when it is the primary concern of this board to satisfy your definition of what is appropriate to respond to in this board?

And if you don't think the pricing of this transit line that is the subject of this forum isn't appropriate, maybe you should be the one to find a new thread where you are comfortable. The pricing structure of the UPX is key to its viability; it's a topic in the news and of public interest right now; and it's a topic clearly many of us here are interested in discussing. Sounds appropriate to me.

 

[interchange42]

That's a bit of an over-the-top response to somebody just making a suggestion, backed up by some reason. No need to be so harsh. The idea is worth considering, more people should weigh in.

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