Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[Platform 27]

"Reasonable" is, of course, very subjective and usually depends on your income level. That said transit is suppose to be a social service not a income generating source. Essentially, transit is a social service for those who cannot afford private transportation.

It's an express train to the flipping airport, not the Jane bus. How many poor single moms from Rexdale apartment towers -- forced every month to choose between buying groceries and making rent -- do you reckon spent their Monday mornings in the check-in line at Pearson waiting to catch the first flight out to Paris?

They could charge one shiny nickel to ride the train, but so long as its clientele matched the average person flying out of Pearson, each trainload of passengers would still be well above the median income. In effect, you're asking for all taxpayers, including those making far less than median income, to pay a subsidy to keep their costs low.

Any air traveller on a train like this pretty clearly already could "afford" private transportation in the form of a several hundred dollar plane ticket. What we're debating isn't "affordability", it's "value". Different customers might wish to balance time, money and convenience differently when it comes to picking a method of getting to and from the airport.

 

[EnviroTO]

"Reasonable" is, of course, very subjective and usually depends on your income level. That said transit is suppose to be a social service not a income generating source. Essentially, transit is a social service for those who cannot afford private transportation.

Why would people who cannot afford private transportation be going to an airport on an express service? There are no public airlines, and the fees on any airline ticket probably exceed the cost that UP Express will charge. Fees at the airport are so bad that Pearson is levying a fee on UP Express.

This service has never been sold as commuter transit. It is an investment in competitiveness with world business centres, which they mention in every write-up or video. A lot of public money also goes into thing like convention centres and tourism bureaus as well.

By the feedback in The Star, clearly Torontonians do not see anything even close to $20 {little alone $30} as reasonable.

But they pay that to take a cab today, to take a limo today, to park at the airport for a week today, to cover fuel surcharges on airline tickets today, etc. UP Express will not operate empty. They will adjust the fares to what maximizes revenue and that means putting people in the seats, but they will not have people standing and with no place to put their luggage so there will be a sweet spot for the price that they will find over the first year of service.

 

[TOareaFan]

So, I guess, what is the price premium that should be paid? It currently costs $6.80 for one of the 7 thirty-two minute train trips per day from Union to Malton......not sure how you get to the airport from there....but it is the closest currently existing rail service. Seats are ok...no space for luggage....no wifi....no airport check in at Union.

What is, then, the "right" extra for one of the 80 trains per day on UPe that get you right into the airport in 25 minutes with the above niceties/features included?

 

[salsa]

There was a good article from Spacing recently about the UPX fares. It's well worth the read.

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2014/08/20/express-metrolinx-overpriced-new-link-airport/

 

[pstogios]

Read a funny Toronto Star reader's letter that expresses the disgust many of us feel for the way Metrolinx is handling this line.
"How to better serve transit elite"

 

[Filip]

I'm not too sure I understand the outrage over the pricing for UPX...

$30 would be too steep. $15-$20 would be the sweet spot. Given the trains ordered for this line, it is not meant for mass transit. Half the train will be filled with luggage anyway.

As for business travelers choosing the airport limo service over the train, well, if they're coming from the downtown core - they'll choose the train. It's the time savings and the peace of mind that you know when you're getting to the airport. Taking a cab subjects you to all kinds of silliness on the highways.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

15 - 20 is not enough to make the money back.

 

[ksun]

I'm not too sure I understand the outrage over the pricing for UPX...

$30 would be too steep. $15-$20 would be the sweet spot. Given the trains ordered for this line, it is not meant for mass transit. Half the train will be filled with luggage anyway.

As for business travelers choosing the airport limo service over the train, well, if they're coming from the downtown core - they'll choose the train. It's the time savings and the peace of mind that you know when you're getting to the airport. Taking a cab subjects you to all kinds of silliness on the highways.

if it is not for the mass, why use taxpayers money to fund it? I don't get it. Do you want your condo board to build a swimming pool using your money and say "only owners of three bedroom suits can use them"?

All this peace of mind about time certainty while is true is blown out of proportion. I drove/took rides to YYZ from downtown quite many times and was seldom stuck in traffic, mostly within 30 minutes. Of course rush hour is a different story but that's just a few hours during the day.

Let's also never forget a taxi picks you up at the time you want, at your hotel. Most people need to get to Union stations first (easily 15-20 minutes), and wait for the train to depart. And a limousine is still more comfortable and gives more privacy than taking a train with 100 other strangers, no matter how elite the service is. It is like the different between a private jet and a A380.

 

[ksun]

15 - 20 is not enough to make the money back.

then by raising the price to $30-40 it will? It is not air or water, there is something called elasticity of demand.
Plus, does the TTC or Go make enough to get the money back?

 

[TOareaFan]

There was a good article from Spacing recently about the UPX fares. It's well worth the read.

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2014/08/20/express-metrolinx-overpriced-new-link-airport/

Article or opinion piece? It only took them 3 words to get to " business class jet-setters"

 

[Filip]

if it is not for the mass, why use taxpayers money to fund it? I don't get it. Do you want your condo board to build a swimming pool using your money and say "only owners of three bedroom suits can use them"?

All this peace of mind about time certainty while is true is blown out of proportion. I drove/took rides to YYZ from downtown quite many times and was seldom stuck in traffic, mostly within 30 minutes. Of course rush hour is a different story but that's just a few hours during the day.

Let's also never forget a taxi picks you up at the time you want, at your hotel. Most people need to get to Union stations first (easily 15-20 minutes), and wait for the train to depart. And a limousine is still more comfortable and gives more privacy than taking a train with 100 other strangers, no matter how elite the service is. It is like the different between a private jet and a A380.

Because all infrastructure is paid by public funds... I receive absolutely no benefit from the massive amount of money being spent on Eglinton/Scarborough, etc, but it is what it is...

Anyway, most business types travel to the airport precisely during rush hour. We almost missed a flight to Chicago last month because the 427 had a major accident. We left 3.5h early and barely made it in time to check in.

 

[EnviroTO]

if it is not for the mass, why use taxpayers money to fund it? I don't get it.

Convention centres, local streets, investment to lure business, etc. They all have their purpose for a benefit which indirectly positively impacts a greater number of people than get immediate benefit. The fact that the majority may never step into a convention centre, and that usually the event will charge if they do, doesn't stop the government from the initial investment. I don't go to concerts and sports games, don't pay for sports channels, but my tax dollars went to subsidize SkyDome. Taxpayers pay for a lot of things because it isn't all about universal use, it is about building a stronger economy and being globally competitive. Just because local streets are public doesn't mean they should all be signed 60km/h with not speed bumps so the greater population can get full benefit. I actually see myself using UP Express and obviously the province thinks I am not alone in that. With 4 trains an hour every day of the year... that is a lot of people. People from out of town will likely be some of the biggest users of the service, and they will pay money to hotels, pay restaurants, make investments in Toronto businesses, etc which will all pay tax.

 

[ksun]

I understand it is for a common good for the city and I support the project (it is about time!) but have a hard time believing that shaving 30 minutes off the travel time between the airport and downtown is gonna bring a lot more visitors and investment. People wouldn't be more interested in visiting Toronto just because the transit from the airport gets better. Businesses don't make decision based on that either. Ask yourself, do you visit a city based on the convenience of airport transportation? Quebec City so far still has almost no public transit at the airport, Montreal doesn't have a good one either but it didn't make them less interesting to visit than say Atlanta, which has a very easy subway ride.

 

[Filip]

I understand it is for a common good for the city and I support the project (it is about time!) but have a hard time believing that shaving 30 minutes off the travel time between the airport and downtown is gonna bring a lot more visitors and investment. People wouldn't be more interested in visiting Toronto just because the transit from the airport gets better. Businesses don't make decision based on that either. Ask yourself, do you visit a city based on the convenience of airport transportation? Quebec City so far still has almost no public transit at the airport, Montreal doesn't have a good one either but it didn't make them less interesting to visit than say Atlanta, which has a very easy subway ride.

It's 25 minutes to the airport on the train. Barring absolutely no traffic on any of the routes to Pearson, you're looking at minimum 30-40 mins by car/taxi.

Unfortunately this is Toronto, where you will see traffic jams on the Gardiner at 11PM on a Saturday... This train offers peace of mind.. When you get on, you know when you're getting off. This is precisely why I've started taking GO Transit even though the cost on top of my metropass is making me rethink driving to work... I like to know no matter what my commute will be 30 mins.

 

[rbt]

This whole complaint is extremely sad. Why do we, as a population, immediately assume there must be 1 and only 1 way to get to the airport? Particularly when the nearby under-construction railway corridor is 4 to 6 tracks wide?

Yes, UPX is expensive and ONLY goes downtown. So, demand greatly enhanced GO frequencies in addition to UPX!

Boston works very well or airport employees with suburban residences by using shuttle buses to take you to a nearby subway station. Pearson still has shuttle buses and could create a frequent link to Malton GO station.


Metrolinx needs to respond to these complaints by getting the HSR EA off the ground immediately. The little-known `Terminal 2` (transit terminal near the airport) should answer all the questions about how workers from all parts of the city can use good transit to get to the airport.

Toss in a Finch extension (I'm not sure Eglinton is actually necessary) and it'll be one of the best serviced areas in the city.