Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Thank you, that was the comment of not being public transit to which I was referring.

As for comparing the Airport Express Bus to the UPX, that is just plain lunacy. There is one itsy-bitsy difference between the two................one didn't cost the tax payers of Ontario half a billion bucks and take up room on a crucial railway corridor. You know what makes this even more offensive..............the business class who use it will actually get a tax right-off courtesy of Ontario and Canadian taxpayers.

To here this women from Metrolinx talk about all the wonderful benefits for the business class is nauseating. She seems offended by the mere mention of the fact that the plebians may actually want to ride the patrician express as well. Seriously, she looks positively indignant.

Maybe Metrolinx should rename this the UP-yours-Express as it more clearly displays what the agency really thinks of the people it purports to serve.
 
Ssiguy2 - Blue22 was a project of that nature long before Metrolinx took it over. Should it have had a root and branch review then? Yes, but I think we can lay the blame for that on the Pan Am boosters who wanted the train to fit a particular timeline. Also, you don't hire Winkreative for a budget service.

disappointing to see you take shots at "this woman at Metrolinx" who is far down the organization food chain and has to work with the info she is provided. She does not have the option to hide behind a username, as you do.
 
Jag202 said:
Does this mean the new tracks and signalling plants are close to completion? Last time I went down there it was still the single CTC main with all other installations inoperable.
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Sorry by UP mainline testing I meant the train(s) not the tracks. As Dan said that will be done on different lines across the system.
 
Maybe I was harsh on the woman who is just an employee, fair enough and point taken but I still think that the heads at Metrolinx feel outrage that Torontonians wouldn't want the business class to be able to take a train that they can't afford.

Metrolinx can take 100% of the blame for this entire line and the outrage it is causing. It was Metrolinx that choose to purchase more luxury trains than standard DMU commuter designed trains. It is Metrolinx that will decide the fares. It is Metrolinx that has tried to purport some form of business case for this line. It is Metrolinx that has caved in to GTAA about the extra $2 per trip. It is Metrolinx that decided to use up the remaining space on a vital piece of railway corridor effectively meaning that the City of Toronto will not be able to use it itself.

To me it's the last above point that really speaks to the heart of the matter. Metrolinx and the TTC are run like fiefdoms and saying they are even on speaking terms is being gracious. Metrolinx couldn't care less if 6 lonely people ride this train everyday just the fact that they are not going to subsidize this line {unlike all it's others} exemplifies how little they actually care about Toronto getting a viable alternative to the airport.

Metrolinx built this line for 2 reasons..........first it was told to build something, anything in time for the Pan Am games but after the games the {McGuinty} government really couldn't care less what happened to the train. Second, Metrolinx wanted to have this line built so it could use up space on the Georgetown corridor. If was not built then the TTC may view it as a transit corridor and Metrolinx wanted to put it's stamp on the line that this corridor was not up for grabs by the TTC. The corridor is in Toronto but Metrolinx clearly wants it reserved for GO and the 905 patrons it serves. As far as GO is concerned, Toronto is just the space between the 905 and Union and not an area is be served.
 
ssiguy2 said:
As for comparing the Airport Express Bus to the UPX, that is just plain lunacy. There is one itsy-bitsy difference between the two................one didn't cost the tax payers of Ontario half a billion bucks and take up room on a crucial railway corridor. You know what makes this even more offensive..............the business class who use it will actually get a tax right-off courtesy of Ontario and Canadian taxpayers.
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The space it takes up in the rail corridor was unused. The money spent was to improve the rail corridor which will also be used by the Georgetown corridor GO. The actual cost of the UPX infrastructure is much less (the spur into Pearson, Pearson Station, Union Station, and raised platforms at Weston. Expensive items like the dig down through Weston aren't for the business traveller's benefit, it is for the local taxpayer. Why do you hate the business class? Pretty sure there is no specific tax write off for taking an airport train versus other travel options. Yes, almost every expense undertaken directly related to activities required by the business are business expenses. Business expenses don't take money out of taxpayer pockets, they take money out of businesses. Their limo ride to the airport would also have been business expense as well. People going from downtown to the airport today in a cab pay $53-$58, so assuming a price cheaper than $53 it will be cheaper for the vast majority of people going from downtown to the airport. Being cheaper most business travellers who use the train will be writing off less as a business expense if your whole thing is about writing off too much. Of course the price hasn't actually been released... it could be anything from $9 to $99.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
Metrolinx can take 100% of the blame for this entire line and the outrage it is causing. It was Metrolinx that choose to purchase more luxury trains than standard DMU commuter designed trains. It is Metrolinx that will decide the fares. It is Metrolinx that has tried to purport some form of business case for this line. It is Metrolinx that has caved in to GTAA about the extra $2 per trip. It is Metrolinx that decided to use up the remaining space on a vital piece of railway corridor effectively meaning that the City of Toronto will not be able to use it itself.
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Outrage over what though? An unadvertised price? What luxury train did they buy? They bought the same exact DMU set that was being bought for a commuter line in the US, and the number of DMU manufacturers that can build to the required standard are few and far between. They had the option of maybe getting a Tri-Met lemon, slapping stickers on outdated Budd Diesels, or what they got. There aren't a lot of North American DMU suppliers and by partnering with SMART of Sonoma California they got a better deal. The whole using up the space in the "vital rail corridor' thing makes it sounds like there is some other city project which would provide similar value that was just around the corner. How exactly is it used up anyways considering the rail services operator of the region used it for railway tracks which sounds like the optimal use for a vital rail corridor.

ssiguy2 said:
Second, Metrolinx wanted to have this line built so it could use up space on the Georgetown corridor. If was not built then the TTC may view it as a transit corridor and Metrolinx wanted to put it's stamp on the line that this corridor was not up for grabs by the TTC.
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Yes, the Metrolinx board sat there petting cats on their desk thinking of ways to mess with the TTC. Once they devised their sinister rails in the railway corridor master plan they all laughed deep boisterous laughs. Meanwhile over in TTC headquarters the tree hugging flower sniffers were just about to take their huge sacks of gold to trade them in for the TTC Weston line.
 
What do I have against the business class?.............nothing, nothing at all.

If a private business want to buy the land, build the track, and provide the rolling stock for a line from downtown to Union, then they can knock themselves out. If it was just their money, they could charge $1000 one-way for all I care and I don't think Torontonians would care either.

This however, is a line built 100% by the taxpayers of Ontario..............in other words it's public infrastructure built by the public and therefore should be accessible to the public. I don't think most people mind a small extra fee for a service to the airport {as long as it doesn't go to the GTAA} on top of their regular fares. It is a further distance than normal travel and people understand that. $20 to $30 bucks one way however is offensive. The Auditor General of Ontario also reported that he thinks Metrolinx's estimate of 3 million passengers in the first 3 years {which is pathetic even for American transit lines} is over optimistic and in order for the line to break even it will have to be closer to $30 one way. That of course would not include an additional TTC ticket to get from Union to your hotel.

"Reasonable" is, of course, very subjective and usually depends on your income level. That said transit is suppose to be a social service not a income generating source. Essentially, transit is a social service for those who cannot afford private transportation. Of course many are "choice" riders but most who take it do so due to the prohibitive cost of private transportation meaning it must keep that in mind when setting fares. By the feedback in The Star, clearly Torontonians do not see anything even close to $20 {little alone $30} as reasonable.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Enviro, you have to admit, people are upset. More people right now want all day rail service to Brampton and Georgetown.
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Absolutely, and with this project they are closer than ever to getting it. This corridor's track was in fairly poor condition and was single tracked. All of a sudden a significant portion of the Georgetown line has been rushed to completion only leaving sections from Bramalea to Brampton to figure out with respect to CN traffic and putting in another track there. The bulk of the money spent on this project has been on the corridor, which is the infrastructure that is shared across all services. If the project to bring all day hourly service to Brampton was split into a two phase project between work from Malton to Union, and work from Brampton to Malton, I'm not sure the project would look much different. The project outside the corridor has really been built as cheaply as it could be to still reach the airport. They built a spur instead of a corridor diversion, they built small stations which can only handle 3 cars, etc. The negative to that is that the frugality means they can't run commuter service using the non-corridor investments.
 
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