Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[TOareaFan]

Well, that's easy. Our Pan Am bid team was announced in September 2008, and in November the province announced the UPX as part of their big move plan and that the EA process for the UPX would be cut from 3 years to 6 months. Conveniently that made the EA get the green light right before selecting the Pan Am bid winner. Also, the head of our bid committee was former Liberal Premiere David Peterson, and the current Premiere was Liberal McGuinty, so it's not hard to imagine them working in concert for the bits and pieces of the Big move that would help our bid. And it's not that the Pan Am visitors care more about this line - technically, it was never about them - it was about impressing the selection committee and winning the bid.

It really is not hard to imagine anything...really but your timeline above conveniently leaves out the period of 2001 to 2008 (long before a PanAm bid was contemplated) where an RFP was issued and a private sector partner was selected....the whole train to the airport was conceived and approved long before 2008 and the only reason the province took it over in 2008 was that the private sector partner selected (SNC Lavalin) had completely dropped the ball on the Blue22 plan and was (IIRC) backing out......so all that 2008 was was the province picking up on a plan approved many years earlier....or, of course, SNC Lavalin and the federal government may have been involved in a very elaborate conspiracy with a McGuinty government that had yet to be elected over a games bid that had yet to be conceived/submitted/won.....I really don't know.

Of note, since the RFP was submitted in 2001, that means Mike Harris was behind it. That man's reputation on transit just keeps getting better. He killed the Eglinton subway and gave the green light to the Sheppard subway and started the UPX mess.

Of note the RFP was issued by Transport Canada (a federal agency) and the then Liberal government led by Jean Chretien was the driving force....not sure there was any provincial money or planning that went into it at all (until ML took it over in 2008).

For some historical perspective, here is a link to the 2003 press release from Transport Minister David Collenette announcing who the successful respondent to the 2001 RFP was.

http://www.westoncommunitycoalition.ca/Nov 2003 Selection of SNC and Backgrounder.pdf

oops....on further reading if you read paragraph 8 backwards it clearly says "I am the walrus and this is a Pan Am Games project"

 

[drum118]

To be clear, all work in the corridor will be finish regardless who win the election.

Metrolinx itself could be on the chopping block if the Liberals lose the election. More so with the PC than the NDP.

Love the latest comment from the NDP telling the municipalities to freeze fares for the next 4 years and who going to pay for doing this since it not in the NDP platform?

Can't understand why the schedule meets are being cancel since it only proving update information as where the project is as well what are the new time lines to do things to complete the work. I was at Strachan meeting yesterday and a dozen people show up and we were brief on a few things as well the person in charge answering various question.

The tender for the noise wall is to go out shortly and to be awarded in June. The contractor will decide how they will and where they will start placing the walls. There are a few wall (4?) for the Strachan area and all on the east side with most at King St area as different types.

 

[kEiThZ]

Anyone have a rough idea when it'll commence service? I see virtually all construction done by end of 2014.

 

[kEiThZ]

Was going to say the same thing myself. Scary thought but a PC's dream.

I honestly don't think they'll scrap Metrolinx, once they realize what a useful tool it is to control regional transit agencies. I think it's quite likely the TTC will either be broken up and have the rail component transferred to Metrolinx, or move over in its entirety.

Having control of the TTC would be huge for every provincial government going forward.

 

[drum118]

Anyone have a rough idea when it'll commence service? I see virtually all construction done by end of 2014.

Supposed to be by April 2015 and depends on when the new trains arrive from Japan. Delivery is to be completed by the end of the year. Once here, testing and training crews will have to take place first before going into service.

The first 2 trains for California Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit (SMART) are are being sent to Pueblo, Colorado for Testing in the US with the rest being built in Illinois. Base on testing in the US, GO trains will be modify if need be here that were made before testing with the rest being modify in Japan.

 

[nfitz]

I honestly don't think they'll scrap Metrolinx, once they realize what a useful tool it is to control regional transit agencies. I think it's quite likely the TTC will either be broken up and have the rail component transferred to Metrolinx, or move over in its entirety.

Why would they want to take fiscal responsibility for TTC?

More likely they'd do what they did last time they were elected, and download Metrolinx Go Transit operation and costs to the GTA communities. And sell Presto and the Union Pearson Express to the highest bidder, like they did with Highway 407.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Why would they want to take fiscal responsibility for TTC?

More likely they'd do what they did last time they were elected, and download Metrolinx Go Transit operation and costs to the GTA communities. And sell Presto and the Union Pearson Express to the highest bidder, like they did with Highway 407.

This is quite literally the nightmare scenario. In one fell swoop, the PCs could destroy the future of transit in Ontario.

Of course it doesn't seem exactly likely that the PCs, even if they win, will pull a majority, and I can't see Liberals or NDP ever supporting measures like those.

 

[nfitz]

This is quite literally the nightmare scenario. In one fell swoop, the PCs could destroy the future of transit in Ontario.

Well, at least set it back for a decade. Which is what they did last time they got into power. It took from 1996 to about 2008, before TTC had fully restored the cuts that they had to make to service after the Tories cut all funding to TTC ... but as soon as we had PC mayor and TTC Chair, they started cutting again.

Given that Hudak has promised big tax cuts if elected ... and a balance budget ... then there also has to be huge service cuts.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Well, at least set it back for a decade. Which is what they did last time they got into power. It took from 1996 to about 2008, before TTC had fully restored the cuts that they had to make to service after the Tories cut all funding to TTC ... but as soon as we had PC mayor and TTC Chair, they started cutting again.

Given that Hudak has promised big tax cuts if elected ... and a balance budget ... then there also has to be huge service cuts.

It seems that a decade is coincidentally also about how long it takes for Ontarians to forget how bad the neoliberal cutting agenda was. If it weren't for McGuinty so thoroughly screwing up the gas plants, we might not be facing this stark reality again...at least not yet.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why would they want to take fiscal responsibility for TTC?

More likely they'd do what they did last time they were elected, and download Metrolinx Go Transit operation and costs to the GTA communities. And sell Presto and the Union Pearson Express to the highest bidder, like they did with Highway 407.

People make all sorts of nightmare scenarios. But those don't lend themselves to political realities. Here's the reality. 905 wins the parties elections. Not the 416. So getting a setup where GO and the TTC subway network are fare-coordinated will most certainly pay off at election time.

GO doesn't take much subsidies. And last I heard, people keep saying that the TTC subway network is profitable on net. So I don't think it's far fetched to rip out the subway network, merge it with GO and hand it to a Metrolinx that may well have a provincial minister run it. Let Toronto take care of its own buses and streetcars.

This may seem crazy to some, but the PCs are perfectly rational and pick policies that win them suburban votes. When Mike Harris, cut and slashed, he did it with the full backing of the 905 suburban belt. Back then, that suburban belt was more concerned about the deficit and taxes than Toronto's transport situation. Today, the 905 suburban belt is concerned about traffic congestion and transit to some extent. But they don't care about the Sheppard or Finch LRTs. They'll vote for more GO service, TTC fare integration, and subway extensions that benefit them (BD to STC benefits Durham, Yonge North benefits Richmond Hill, DRL relieves severe congestion on Yonge...hurts those VIVA riders). Of course, just as before too, the 905 is still concerned about economic and fiscal concerns before transport. Hence, PC's targeting those issues.

Believing that the PCs are irrational haters of transit is the first mistake that all their transit-loving opponents make. They don't hate transit. They just don't like transit that doesn't have any electoral payoffs for them.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

People make all sorts of nightmare scenarios. But those don't lend themselves to political realities. Here's the reality. 905 wins the parties elections. Not the 416. So getting a setup where GO and the TTC subway network are fare-coordinated will most certainly pay off at election time.

GO doesn't take much subsidies. And last I heard, people keep saying that the TTC subway network is profitable on net. So I don't think it's far fetched to rip out the subway network, merge it with GO and hand it to a Metrolinx that may well have a provincial minister run it. Let Toronto take care of its own buses and streetcars.

This may seem crazy to some, but the PCs are perfectly rational and pick policies that win them suburban votes. When Mike Harris, cut and slashed, he did it with the full backing of the 905 suburban belt. Back then, that suburban belt was more concerned about the deficit and taxes than Toronto's transport situation. Today, the 905 suburban belt is concerned about traffic congestion and transit to some extent. But they don't care about the Sheppard or Finch LRTs. They'll vote for more GO service, TTC fare integration, and subway extensions that benefit them (BD to STC benefits Durham, Yonge North benefits Richmond Hill, DRL relieves severe congestion on Yonge...hurts those VIVA riders). Of course, just as before too, the 905 is still concerned about economic and fiscal concerns before transport. Hence, PC's targeting those issues.

Believing that the PCs are irrational haters of transit is the first mistake that all their transit-loving opponents make. They don't hate transit. They just don't like transit that doesn't have any electoral payoffs for them.

The 905 was happy to whine when the teachers went on strike. Of course, they are the ones that will feel the pain first when it happens again. There are a lot of greedy people in Ontario.

 

[TOareaFan]

This may seem crazy to some, but the PCs are perfectly rational and pick policies that win them suburban votes.

Just the Tory party does that? A month ago anyone who asked GO/ML when hourly off peak train service would be introduced on the non-Lakeshore lines was told "no firm plans.....in the big move but no dates"....then, bam the Minister announces 15 minute, electrified service on all lines within 10 years! A month ago, who was talking about HSR between London and Toronto....then bam....it will happen in 6-8 years.

No denying the PCs try to tailor their platform to get votes....but don't kid yourself into thinking they are alone in that.

Here's the reality. 905 wins the parties elections. Not the 416.

I need a bit of help understanding this. There are 22 seats in Toronto.

In the last election, the Liberals won 17 of the Toronto ridings and ended with a total of 53 seats. The opposition Tories won 0 seats in Toronto and ended up with 37 seats. So it looks like the rest of the province (including the "905") was 36 Liberal 37 Tory and 17 NDP

Sure looks like the 416 won that election for the Liberal Party.

http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/05/2014-projections-may-3.jpg?w=900&h=501&crop=1

 

[ShonTron]

Again, talk of the election is going way off-topic.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Waaaayyy off topic. Not going to make any bad railroad analogies, pet peeve of mine (they're too easy).

The UP Express will be built, there's no rationale for stopping it at this stage. If there's any relevant discussion to have, it is whether a new government would sell it as nfitz mentioned. And I say that with the risk of re-opening debate on whether the UP Express will be profitable, but I'm sure everyone can agree to disagree on that front.

 

[julesomar]

can someone please advise the final plan / configuration for transfers between Dundas West TTC and Bloor GO?

Is it just walking on the sidewalk? Thanks.