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For the Kitchener Line, there is a bottle neck through downtown Brampton & Brampton station where a third track needs to be installed. For those who know the area, between Centre Street in the east & Mill Street just west of Brampton Go & Via Station. It's going to require major work with multiple bridge widenings and/or replacements, widening a 2 track wide berm & moving the original Via station building back to accommodate the third track. Not impossible, or even all that hard but a lot of work to do. There may or may not be an opportunity to do some or all of this work as the Hurontario Main LRT is built.
And that tunnel under the 401/409 still has to be widened for 4 tracks. I've seen 2018 as a possible time frame for completion on that. Last I've seen, the design tender went out last year...
 
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Does anyone know whether there'll be any changes...ever...to the segment of track between Silvercreek Pkwy and the Guelph GO Station?
 
For the Kitchener Line, there is a bottle neck through downtown Brampton & Brampton station where a third track needs to be installed. For those who know the area, between Centre Street in the east & Mill Street just west of Brampton Go & Via Station. It's going to require major work with multiple bridge widenings and/or replacements, widening a 2 track wide berm & moving the original Via station building back to accommodate the third track. Not impossible, or even all that hard but a lot of work to do. There may or may not be an opportunity to do some or all of this work as the Hurontario Main LRT is built.
And that tunnel under the 401/409 still has to be widened for 4 tracks. I've seen 2018 as a possible time frame for completion on that. Last I've seen, the design tender went out last year...

It depends on how GO and CN schedules their trains, but Brampton is not quite the bottleneck that it used to be. The single track between Main Street and Kennedy Road is now doubled; between Mount Pleasant and McMurchy Avenue and Kennedy Road and Bramalea GO, it went from two to three tracks. The second platform at Brampton allows GO to use either track. These are major improvements for which there are only two additional round trips (three more GO RTs since the work was completed, minus one VIA RT cut by the Harper Cons, including "dead heads" in the RTs).

I'm sure CN wants the third track so that GO is never in their way, but it should* be simple enough to run hourly two-way train service (with additional trains in the peak direction) even with the regular freight service - after all, the majority of the Halton Sub through Halton Hills, Milton and Burlington is single track with passing sidings. I agree that a third track is ideal through downtown Brampton (and perhaps four-track sections to the east and west) so that CN trains can run independently of GO.

*Waiting for smallspy to tell me why this can never happen.
 
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I really can't stand how not-straightforward GO and Metrolinx are in explaining their expansions/construction of their projects and timelines.

I honestly found out about the extension to Kitchener by accident. Hardly a word of it it seemed and then it just popped up one day.

There is a site about the Georgetown corridor construction but its really a mess and doesn't specifically explain what they are doing and what impact it will have on GO service.

Apparently there is a station being built at Gormley? And they are extending the Richmond Hill line and its supposed to be done at the end of the year?

There never seems to be any definite plan. Just a hodgepodge of ideas in a MoveOntario that gets changed to a Big Move and things get shifted around with no definite idea of completion and then when they ARE completed there is hardly a word about it.

When things are announced its written almost cryptically. New station here. Track upgrades here. New trains purchased here. No real attempt at explaining what the end game plan or goal is for any of it.

Honestly from a laymans perspective it feels about as well run as a grade 9 group project.
 
It depends on how GO and CN schedules their trains, but Brampton is not quite the bottleneck that it used to be. The single track between Main Street and Kennedy Road is now doubled; between Mount Pleasant and McMurchy Avenue and Kennedy Road and Bramalea GO, it went from two to three tracks. The second platform at Brampton allows GO to use either track. These are major improvements for which there are only two additional round trips (three more GO RTs since the work was completed, minus one VIA RT cut by the Harper Cons, including "dead heads" in the RTs).

I'm sure CN wants the third track so that GO is never in their way, but it should* be simple enough to run hourly two-way train service (with additional trains in the peak direction) even with the regular freight service - after all, the majority of the Halton Sub through Halton Hills, Milton and Burlington is single track with passing sidings. I agree that a third track is ideal through downtown Brampton (and perhaps four-track sections to the east and west) so that CN trains can run independently of GO.

*Waiting for smallspy to tell me why this can never happen.
Like I said earlier...2 tracks seemed to be enough on the Lakeshore for quite a few decades for hourly off peak.
 
It depends on what other traffic is on the route as well. The only freight heavy stretch of lakeshore had 4 tracks. (East of Pickering)
 
I'm sure CN wants the third track so that GO is never in their way, but it should* be simple enough to run hourly two-way train service (with additional trains in the peak direction) even with the regular freight service - after all, the majority of the Halton Sub through Halton Hills, Milton and Burlington is single track with passing sidings. I agree that a third track is ideal through downtown Brampton (and perhaps four-track sections to the east and west) so that CN trains can run independently of GO.

*Waiting for smallspy to tell me why this can never happen.

No, I'm actually in agreement with you on this one. By putting three tracks on either side of it, they can stage long freights on either side of the station should both platform tracks be occupied. This was also the thinking for some of the locations of third track that VIA had paid for on the Kingston Sub.

Of course, the caveat to that is that the CN employees and contractors who told them that in 2005 are likely no longer with the company, and the guys who are either don't know or don't agree with their theory.

That said, CN has already been making noises about building a third track at Brampton Station. I don't want to see the bill on that project.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
No, I'm actually in agreement with you on this one. By putting three tracks on either side of it, they can stage long freights on either side of the station should both platform tracks be occupied. This was also the thinking for some of the locations of third track that VIA had paid for on the Kingston Sub.

Of course, the caveat to that is that the CN employees and contractors who told them that in 2005 are likely no longer with the company, and the guys who are either don't know or don't agree with their theory.

That said, CN has already been making noises about building a third track at Brampton Station. I don't want to see the bill on that project.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

This may fall into the naive thinking of a layman but is it not as simple as GO and VIA agreeing/guaranteeing to CN that at no time would two passenger trains occupy the two platforms at the same time. So if a passenger train is at a platform as another approaches the second train waits outside the station.

I can't imagine that it would add to much time delay or service interruption and I think it would only be an issue at Brampton (there are other two platform stations but I think most/all of the freight on the line splits off just east of Bramalea..no?).
 
This may fall into the naive thinking of a layman but is it not as simple as GO and VIA agreeing/guaranteeing to CN that at no time would two passenger trains occupy the two platforms at the same time. So if a passenger train is at a platform as another approaches the second train waits outside the station.

I can't imagine that it would add to much time delay or service interruption and I think it would only be an issue at Brampton (there are other two platform stations but I think most/all of the freight on the line splits off just east of Bramalea..no?).

If hourly two-way service goes only as far as Mount Pleasant, it should be simple for GO to schedule off-peak trains in such a way that there would only be one train west of Bramalea at any one time (peak periods excepted) - the GO schedule provides 14 minutes for a train to leave Bramalea and arrive at Mount Pleasant, where it would require a 10-15 minute layover for brake check and crew positioning. Say if the train leaves Bramalea at 9:00, it would arrive at Mount Pleasant at 9:15, depart eastbound at 9:30, and be back at Bramalea at 9:45 and soon on the Weston Sub. CN would still have effectively a mainline track and long passing sidings to itself (two mainline tracks to itself east of Kennedy Road), plus the track unoccupied by GO as it sits at Mount Pleasant.

Even with 10-15 minutes leeway for delays, only one GO train need occupy the Halton Sub at any one time, with the exception of 6:15 to 8:45 and 16:15 though 18:45 or so, when there would likely be two or three trains operating - say 10/15/30 minute service in the peak direction (depending on how GO wishes to schedule its trains) and 30-60 minute service in the off-peak direction. Even in peak hours, GO can handle some increased demand with local trains from Bramalea (paired with express trains from Kitchener and Georgetown) that wouldn't even touch the Halton Sub if it used the third layover track. There's also room on the north/east side of the station for another freight track.

For 30 minute service, which would really be useful (60 minutes just being okay), the third track though downtown Brampton would definitely be needed - this is work that I would support, though it would be very expensive - utility relocation, widening Centre Street, Etobicoke Creek, Queen Street, Union Street, Main Street bridges, as well as widening the embankment, moving the station (and probably the old freight/baggage house), rebuilding the platform, rebuilding the John and Mill Street grade crossings and associated track and signal work.
 
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It appears that not committing to AD2W service (hourly off peak) is either a case of letting the search for perfection get in the way of pretty good or there really is no will to do it so if, after spending $1.3B already, you suggest there needs to be 3 or 4 tracks and it will take another 5 years and another $1.1B....people will just go "ah well, it would be nice but not possible".

I grow more skeptical by the day that I will see AD2W service on this line during my working life and I suspect that when the Hurontario LRT is built and the YUS subway extension opens, Bramptonians will just be pointed in those directions and told "see, we gave you all day service'.....hope I am wrong but it is a growing uneasy feeling.
 
It appears that not committing to AD2W service (hourly off peak) is either a case of letting the search for perfection get in the way of pretty good or there really is no will to do it so if, after spending $1.3B already, you suggest there needs to be 3 or 4 tracks and it will take another 5 years and another $1.1B....people will just go "ah well, it would be nice but not possible".

I grow more skeptical by the day that I will see AD2W service on this line during my working life and I suspect that when the Hurontario LRT is built and the YUS subway extension opens, Bramptonians will just be pointed in those directions and told "see, we gave you all day service'.....hope I am wrong but it is a growing uneasy feeling.

If GO was serious about it, it would technically require zero additional infrastructure to run all day two way, hourly service to Mount Pleasant (plus current and some additional peak-direction trains) once the work on the Weston Sub is finished. This fact needs to be pushed and pushed hard.
 
It would need an additional track wouldn't it? that would be cheap considering all the bridges along the line are built for that additional track, but the track would need to be laid.
 
It seems to me that with Metrolinx all of the EA's and discussion seem to be 2WAD or nothing.

To me it would make more sense to see a slow incremental improvement along each line with service, away from just rush hour peak service. From a business perspective you slowly increase service to generate and create demand.

This means a slow build towards 2WAD service from the current commuter service, such as weekend trains on all routes and maybe 3 or 4 trains going in an opposing back-and-forth direction midday and during the late night.

I understand some times have to be shared with freight and timing would have to be critical in areas with layovers and single track sharing but looking at the train timetables it seems like there is still room for more service even with the existing infrastructure in place.

Why is GO/Metrolinx so intent on 2WAD service in their reports with no interest in weekend/occasional reversed trains throughout the day?
 
It would need an additional track wouldn't it? that would be cheap considering all the bridges along the line are built for that additional track, but the track would need to be laid.

It is, at a minimum, double tracked the whole way......Lakeshore did not need triple tracking until the 30 minute frequency was planned/implemented.
 

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