Automation Gallery
Superstar
Huh, you dont move into that area thinking that one day it will become Sleepyville
Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli
- Thread starter Conrad Black
- Start date
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
RC8:
What does having a casino on the site have anything to do with treating individuals who live there "with respect"? I mean, just how is it different than say having Skydome or god forbid, ACC next door?
AoD
What does having a casino on the site have anything to do with treating individuals who live there "with respect"? I mean, just how is it different than say having Skydome or god forbid, ACC next door?
AoD
Blovertis
Active Member
These visions are that being conjured of Front Street suddenly transformed into Potterville are completely at odds with what I see on those rare occasions when I find myself at Casino Niagara/Rama/Windsor. The vast majority of casino patrons (at least in Canada) appear to be 65+ and on their last legs. Walkers and motorized scooters abound.
If anything, a casino will make Front more sedate.
RC8
Senior Member
I love sports and I actually really like visiting casinos, but sports in canada are for the most part a very family-friendly environment - whereas clubs and casinos are not.
A casino could be family friendly too if properly designed and placed in an appropriate location, but I suspect that this particular one wouldn't be.
P.S. to the poster above: I don't think they are going for the casino Rama or, for that matter, Woodbine demographic here.
MetroMan
Senior Member
A little bit of interesting info from my friends at the to-be-unamed firm I spoke to on Friday: the park is very much in flux and they agree that this is comparable to Millenium Park in Chicago. If not in size, it is in concept. Millennium Park was built by decking over an active rail corridor and a former parking lot. The idea is starting off as a simple park decking over the rail corridor but if allowed to proceed, the idea will develop. The design of the park is just a place holder. If this goes forward, it's going to be designed by Foster. Now imagine our own Foster designed "Pritzker Pavillion" at the base of the CN Tower and outside the SkyDome. Now that is daydreamworthy. 
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Sure. London, Berlin, New York, Montreal.
There was all kinds of nightlife in all of the neighbourhoods where I lived in Berlin. Sure, it wasn't the "club district" equivalent, which I guess would be the Warschauer Strasse area, but there were all kinds of night spots open considerably later than any in Toronto. They were all very popular and attractive neighbourhoods. My neighbourhood in New York, by contrast, was peaceful and quiet and residential (though very high density) with no nightlife in sight. I can assure you that my rent was a hell of a lot lower than it would have been in the Meatpacking District or Lower East Side, areas that are packed with nightlife. I think a lot of these attitudes are relics of the 1950s/60s ideals of separation of use, as if any commercial (let alone industrial!) presence near a residential neighbourhood would corrupt the children and generally make it a horrible place to live. I just don't really buy it. Mixed use neighbourhoods are great places to live for people who understand what they're getting themselves into. If they really do want silence in the evenings, there are all kinds of lovely neighbourhoods to choose from.
I understand what you're saying, but isn't there some validity to the point that the clubs were there first? Going by myself and my neighbours, I really believe that most people moved into that neighbourhood because they actually like activity and nightlife.
As an aside, I've always found the baseball fans leaving the SkyDome to be just as loud, if not louder, than the clubbers. In fact, I find the biggest noise problem with the clubbers to be horn honking. That could easily be resolved with a no-honking ordinance after, say, 10pm. They have them all over New York and Europe.
The Millennium Park model would be incredibly exciting. I wish that this park could be developed in a similar way. For anybody unfamiliar, what happened in Chicago was that the City wanted to build a parking garage and deck over the rail corridor. The city would build a fairly basic green space, while private donations would be sought for a more elaborate improvement. They were able to raise so much in private donations that they were able to include Cloud Gate and the Gehry bandshell and everything else. The park space should be given over to a charitable foundation with the goal of emulating the Millennium Park model.
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christiesplits
Senior Member
Anyone else think that the casino development could create a "domino effect" where neighboring cash-starved municipalities emulate the Toronto model? This could nullify the perceived economic benefits when 905 customers now have Brampton or Pickering locations closer to home. Hell, its happening to the Niagara Ontario casinos that are losing American customers to casinos being built across the river. Same for Detroit which is now competing with Ohio and Pennsylvania casinos.
I actually think that's being optimistic. As noted earlier, I see the casino as a boon for charter companies luring the pensioner and nursing home crowds. I don't think the young 905 crowd will be pulled away from Jack Astor's and Cake Bar. Especially as the area is already under threat from condos and the increased competition from 905 based establishments. My experience at "urban" casinos suggests it will be a 50+ crowd with schmaltzy decor and mediocre entertainers from the 70's.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
RC8:
But why do we need to fetishize, if I may use the word, "family-friendliness"? Besides, casinos are first of all access controlled - and the gambling areas are doubly so. To say that just by putting a casino on the site in question will transform the area into an anti-family den is about as accurate as saying Fallsview made Niagara Falls Sodom & Gomorrah. That simply isn't the case.
mjl08:
Except that in the case of Toronto, I don't see the casino as an act of economic desperation, but an "add on" attraction. And I have a feeling that the interest of the big players in putting a significant, resort-style facility in the rest of the GTA is fairly low - they would have pursued that lowest hanging fruit if it was in their interest to do so.
AoD
But why do we need to fetishize, if I may use the word, "family-friendliness"? Besides, casinos are first of all access controlled - and the gambling areas are doubly so. To say that just by putting a casino on the site in question will transform the area into an anti-family den is about as accurate as saying Fallsview made Niagara Falls Sodom & Gomorrah. That simply isn't the case.
mjl08:
Except that in the case of Toronto, I don't see the casino as an act of economic desperation, but an "add on" attraction. And I have a feeling that the interest of the big players in putting a significant, resort-style facility in the rest of the GTA is fairly low - they would have pursued that lowest hanging fruit if it was in their interest to do so.
AoD
Automation Gallery
Superstar
A little bit of interesting info from my friends at the to-be-unamed firm I spoke to on Friday: the park is very much in flux and they agree that this is comparable to Millenium Park in Chicago. If not in size, it is in concept. Millennium Park was built by decking over an active rail corridor and a former parking lot. The idea is starting off as a simple park decking over the rail corridor but if allowed to proceed, the idea will develop. The design of the park is just a place holder. If this goes forward, it's going to be designed by Foster. Now imagine our own Foster designed "Pritzker Pavillion" at the base of the CN Tower and outside the SkyDome. Now that is daydreamworthy.
Here is the latest article regarding decking over the rail corridor
From the Star............http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...sal-would-turn-railway-lands-into-public-park
Toronto casino proposal would turn Railway Lands into public park
A $3-billion casino development that would see a sky-high facelift in the city’s downtown core also has greener plans at ground level to transform the unused space over the Railway Lands into a 5.5.-acre park.
Oxford Properties Group president and CEO Blake Hutcheson said the proposed park space would extend over the industrial rows of tracks south of Front St. toward the waterfront, linking the CN Tower, Rogers Centre and Metro Toronto Convention Centre and offering a new vantage on the city.
MetroMan
Senior Member
^ Thanks for the article AG. Here's what Millennium Park looked like before. It is now Chicago's most beloved public space. Now doesn't this make you dream about what a decked over rail corridor park could become for Toronto?
alklay
Senior Member
Millennium Park is close to 25 acres. This proposed park is 5.5.
Joe R.
Banned
You said the park will only cover the rail corridor, so it won't be anywhere close to the spaciousness of Millenium Park.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
^ Does that mean its not worth pursuing?
Joe R.
Banned
He never said it wasn't. He was just pointing out that our park won't be remotely close to the size of Millenium Park.
alklay
Senior Member
Please, cover the tracks in this spot. But stop the comparisons to such a huge park with multiple large art projects. We are getting 5.5 acres and walking paths. This sounds fine but lets just keep things in perspective.