MetroMan
Senior Member
I was debating whether to mention this and decided that I would but leave out the name of the company:
Last night I went out for drinks with friends who all work for a big architectural firm here in Toronto. Of course I brought up Oxford Place. One of the senior people there told me that they have people at Foster's firm in London right now and that should this proposal go ahead, they will be involved in doing all the local work such as drawings, permits, etc.
It sounds like this is further along than the fantasy renderings suggest. Before last night, my initial impression was that Foster was only hired to design this promotional plan to lure a casino operator and of course if it went through his firm would be hired to follow it through. But speaking with my friends last night, it became clear that Foster is involved in this for the long run. I also don't think Oxford would gamble (ha!) on a rickety casino plan making it through city hall. They must have a Plan B that also involves Foster.
One of the engineers had his take on the park. He said that if it wasn't load bearing for buildings taller than 2 floors and just a park, that the rail corridor is narrow enough at that point for a cantilevered deck and a park could be supported.
It would involve a very close relationship with the stakeholders of the CN Tower and SkyDome because their properties would require extensive reconfiguration and would host important components for the cantilever going far south into both properties. The Renaissance Hotel forecourt would need to be closed for months (is there an alternate entrance?) and the CN Tower would have to open their original entrances on the south of the tower and reconfigure their security checkpoints and close their shop. The rail corridor would have to have portions closed for weeks at a time as well. Some pillars would be required at the Eastern edge of the deck on CN property.
Adam Vaughan says its impossible. It's not impossible from an engineering standpoint. We're not building the Hoover Dam here.... But it is extraordinarily difficult to get all 3 parties to agree to all of this. What would they gain? Who would pay for it? This is where a casino comes into play and why it's so difficult - if not impossible - to do this without a casino. The casino means not only money but a heavy flow of pedestrian traffic to appeal to the CN Tower and SkyDome's interests.
It's natural to think that the SkyDome appears to be a loser here at first glance. A two tower hotel complex competing for rooms with the Renaissance. But if you think about it, this area isn't currently all that desirable for tourists to stay in right now. It's at the far edge of where any tourist would venture to in the city and not really that close to tourist destinations other than the CN Tower and the SkyDome itself. Having the casino and transforming this area into a premium tourist destination could actually help the Renaissance sell rooms and the SkyDome sell game tickets.
The CN Tower is the big winner here. They're already working to reconfigure the area around the tower and bring it down to human scale with shops and restaurants. They're already going to knock down the entrance building and do something else. Having a more direct connection to a newly vibrant Front St and a straight path from the Entertainment district on King St W to the CN Tower will completely transform the pedestrian flow to the tower. The CN Tower will fall in line with a more traditional street grid with a well defined John street following through to Bremner as a pedestrian corridor.
The park and a plaza would open up the space around the north side of the tower so that people could walk all around it.
What does CN have to gain? Do they even own the air rights? This one stumps me.
So this particular plan can't work without a casino. So I don't hold out too much hope. But the convention centre will be redeveloped and towers will rise above it. The park will probably not happen without the casino. I believe Foster will be involved either way so I look forward to plan B if the city rejects the casino.
Last night I went out for drinks with friends who all work for a big architectural firm here in Toronto. Of course I brought up Oxford Place. One of the senior people there told me that they have people at Foster's firm in London right now and that should this proposal go ahead, they will be involved in doing all the local work such as drawings, permits, etc.
It sounds like this is further along than the fantasy renderings suggest. Before last night, my initial impression was that Foster was only hired to design this promotional plan to lure a casino operator and of course if it went through his firm would be hired to follow it through. But speaking with my friends last night, it became clear that Foster is involved in this for the long run. I also don't think Oxford would gamble (ha!) on a rickety casino plan making it through city hall. They must have a Plan B that also involves Foster.
One of the engineers had his take on the park. He said that if it wasn't load bearing for buildings taller than 2 floors and just a park, that the rail corridor is narrow enough at that point for a cantilevered deck and a park could be supported.
It would involve a very close relationship with the stakeholders of the CN Tower and SkyDome because their properties would require extensive reconfiguration and would host important components for the cantilever going far south into both properties. The Renaissance Hotel forecourt would need to be closed for months (is there an alternate entrance?) and the CN Tower would have to open their original entrances on the south of the tower and reconfigure their security checkpoints and close their shop. The rail corridor would have to have portions closed for weeks at a time as well. Some pillars would be required at the Eastern edge of the deck on CN property.
Adam Vaughan says its impossible. It's not impossible from an engineering standpoint. We're not building the Hoover Dam here.... But it is extraordinarily difficult to get all 3 parties to agree to all of this. What would they gain? Who would pay for it? This is where a casino comes into play and why it's so difficult - if not impossible - to do this without a casino. The casino means not only money but a heavy flow of pedestrian traffic to appeal to the CN Tower and SkyDome's interests.
It's natural to think that the SkyDome appears to be a loser here at first glance. A two tower hotel complex competing for rooms with the Renaissance. But if you think about it, this area isn't currently all that desirable for tourists to stay in right now. It's at the far edge of where any tourist would venture to in the city and not really that close to tourist destinations other than the CN Tower and the SkyDome itself. Having the casino and transforming this area into a premium tourist destination could actually help the Renaissance sell rooms and the SkyDome sell game tickets.
The CN Tower is the big winner here. They're already working to reconfigure the area around the tower and bring it down to human scale with shops and restaurants. They're already going to knock down the entrance building and do something else. Having a more direct connection to a newly vibrant Front St and a straight path from the Entertainment district on King St W to the CN Tower will completely transform the pedestrian flow to the tower. The CN Tower will fall in line with a more traditional street grid with a well defined John street following through to Bremner as a pedestrian corridor.
The park and a plaza would open up the space around the north side of the tower so that people could walk all around it.
What does CN have to gain? Do they even own the air rights? This one stumps me.
So this particular plan can't work without a casino. So I don't hold out too much hope. But the convention centre will be redeveloped and towers will rise above it. The park will probably not happen without the casino. I believe Foster will be involved either way so I look forward to plan B if the city rejects the casino.
