Toronto U of T: Landscape of Landmark Quality | ?m | 1s | U of T | MVVA

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AMOR said:
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Excellent pics.......ty.

Boy does that ever highlight the desire line.......... the existence of which, is not at all desirable!

Now the question, do they pave it? (with interlock!) or do they re-do it and make the needed changes to the design to preclude its recurrence. (which probably means blocking one or both ends of that line w/fences; though you could try a dense shrub bed.)
 
Northern Light said:
Excellent pics.......ty.

Boy does that ever highlight the desire line.......... the existence of which, is not at all desirable!

Now the question, do they pave it? (with interlock!) or do they re-do it and make the needed changes to the design to preclude its recurrence. (which probably means blocking one or both ends of that line w/fences; though you could try a dense shrub bed.)
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Desire lines are the pathways people take as opposed to those that are built. I once heard a landscape architect say that ideally if one is planning a park you watch it in the winter before to see the paths people made in the snow and then build real paths on these lines.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
Desire line...?
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@DSC has properly explained it above; for clarity, in the photos you can see a line across the grass where people are repeatedly shortcutting across the circle and the grass is being worn away; that is the 'Desire Line'; a path not intended by the designers, but desired and created by the users of the space.

DSC said:
I once heard a landscape architect say that ideally if one is planning a park you watch it in the winter before to see the paths people made in the snow and then build real paths on these lines.
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I agree with this; I absolutely commend every landscape designer who is working a on pre-existing space, to sit down for a couple of hours, on different days, and at different times and see how people use/traverse a space, it will and/or should inform how you design it.

Now, that said, I don't remember a desire line in the circle, following this route before............so I went and pulled up an aerial image from 2018:

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No real sign of it. Perhaps the road and the parking discouraged people from making a shortcut they wanted to make before, and the removal has now encouraged that choice?
 
Northern Light said:
@DSC has properly explained it above; for clarity, in the photos you can see a line across the grass where people are repeatedly shortcutting across the circle and the grass is being worn away; that is the 'Desire Line'; a path not intended by the designers, but desired and created by the users of the space.



I agree with this; I absolutely commend every landscape designer who is working a on pre-existing space, to sit down for a couple of hours, on different days, and at different times and see how people use/traverse a space, it will and/or should inform how you design it.

Now, that said, I don't remember a desire line in the circle, following this route before............so I went and pulled up an aerial image from 2018:

View attachment 519620

No real sign of it. Perhaps the road and the parking discouraged people from making a shortcut they wanted to make before, and the removal has now encouraged that choice?
Click to expand...
I used to walk across the lawn diagonally when I was in the area pre-refurbishment, although not often enough to create a desire line.
 
I think it should also be noted that the lawn is still blocked on the southern end, so there are certain paths that people can't take if they wanted to.

It's not the desire line I would have predicted. When I was at UofT, most of the Vic and St Mike's students crossed Queens Park and ended up around Hart House - and from there, there was often people crossing the lawn to Con Hall. So perpendicular to this desire line. The one in the photo seems to lead from the UC residences to Med Sci? A bit odd, honestly.

I imagine the fact that there are still fences in places that are not clearly visible in the photo that are preventing other crossings, or that are concentrating movement into that path. I think concerns about desire lines should hold off until the whole area is open.
 
DavidCapizzano said:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm remember when I suggested paving them with interlock and everyone said “no the heritage”

🙄🙃🤔😌
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Yup, and I'm still so inclined. I see the space as a place for sports, and as a hangout where people lay down a towel and talk w/friends, a diagonal pathway isn't conducive to that.

Paving it with interlock is an option, just not my preferred choice.
 
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At certain points of the year, that circle used to act like a sponge to any sort of ambient water, making ones' feet all wet if they dare crossed it...even on dry days. So that could been a deterrent to any desire line as well.

...and thanks for explaining all that @DSC and @Northern Light. /bows
 
Parkdalian said:
I think it should also be noted that the lawn is still blocked on the southern end, so there are certain paths that people can't take if they wanted to.

It's not the desire line I would have predicted. When I was at UofT, most of the Vic and St Mike's students crossed Queens Park and ended up around Hart House - and from there, there was often people crossing the lawn to Con Hall. So perpendicular to this desire line. The one in the photo seems to lead from the UC residences to Med Sci? A bit odd, honestly.

I imagine the fact that there are still fences in places that are not clearly visible in the photo that are preventing other crossings, or that are concentrating movement into that path. I think concerns about desire lines should hold off until the whole area is open.
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This aligns w/my experience precisely. I still remember in first year cutting from class at Northrop Frye across Queen's Park to Hart House, where upon I had to beeline down for a class at Med.Sci. (didn't need to cross Front Campus)

I made the same move in later years to get to classes at Syd Smith, and again didn't need the front campus lawn for that movement.

(PS, I was a UC student, but lots of classes at Vic)
 
This project is such a revelation. When I was taking my pics yesterday, I was looking at the facial reactions of other people walking around the circle and I can say that the overwhelming majority had a look that expressed calmness. It is amazing what a well-conceived car-free space can do for our collective psyche. It'll be amazing to see this space in 10 years when the new trees have grown. I hope UofT plants even more!

There are so many "wins" here but that there is one area that I think could have been done differently. At the northern end of King's College Road the Solar Clock could be relocated to make a 90 degree turn from Galbraith Road. This would make the forecourt at Convocation Hall more generous. The new sidewalk on the south side of Convocation Hall is still very narrow. Hopefully this is part of a future phase as suggested in the original KPMB & MVVA design.
KPMB-MVVA CH.jpg
 
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