Toronto The One | 328.4m | 91s | Mizrahi Developments | Foster + Partners

dt_toronto_geek said:
Read the North Downtown Yonge Street Planning Framework. The 460 & 501 disasters will hopefully end there once the Planning Framework for this strip of Yonge is complete, and adapted. From there we need something like what Winnipeg has, the owner must keep their buildings in a good state of repair or the City will put a lien on the property. An aggressive stance like that will wake up absentee, off-shore investors.
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Are you saying these new proposals, which brings density and vibrancy to the downtown core, are worse than what is right now - trip mall like low rise tacky stores with no characters at all? These are the disasters for Toronto.
I know you almost oppose any highrise development in the core, but show us a reason why 460 and 501 Yonge should stay and what value they bring to Toronto. You act as if every buildings more than 30 years old and lower than 4 stories are by default "heritage" and should be preserve at all costs.

A bit north of 460 Yonge, a couple of tacky souvenir/cheap Tshirt stores are closed for good. Hope something good will replace them. Admittedly there are some very nice row houses on Yonge between College and Bloor that should be protected, but more are of garbage quality and should be gone sooner or later.
 
kkgg7 said:
Are you saying these new proposals, which brings density and vibrancy to the downtown core, are worse than what is right now - trip mall like low rise tacky stores with no characters at all? These are the disasters for Toronto.
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Not to answer for him but I don't think that's what he's saying at all. He appears to be saying there is a third choice that lays somewhere between low rise strip mall and block-busting behemoth. The nerve of him!
 
Tewder, that is exactly how I read it as well. And having been acquainted with dt_toronto_geek for several years now, I can say that the character attributions listed in kkgg7's post are completely off base. DT is hardly the poster boy for opposition to highrise development.

Our approach to city building needs to be balanced so that we retain some of our history and character... be more like Manhattan than Shenzhen.
 
kkgg7 said:
Are you saying these new proposals, which brings density and vibrancy to the downtown core, are worse than what is right now
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Yes! I don't think Yonge Street needs density along here, and what condo offers "vibrancy" compared to what we already have along here?

trip mall like low rise tacky stores with no characters at all? These are the disasters for Toronto.
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Friendly suggestion, how about taking a walk down the street and looking at what is actually there.

I know you almost oppose any highrise development in the core, but show us a reason why 460 and 501 Yonge should stay and what value they bring to Toronto. You act as if every buildings more than 30 years old and lower than 4 stories are by default "heritage" and should be preserve at all costs.
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If you've read some of my posts you'd know that not to be true, if you haven't then don't be making comments about what you don't know. Personally, I have no attachment nor attraction to either the 460 or 501 sites other than they offer great retail spots, what's left of those buildings could be demolished tomorrow and I could care less, so long as something more attractive was built - and not something 50 stories high.

A bit north of 460 Yonge, a couple of tacky souvenir/cheap Tshirt stores are closed for good. Hope something good will replace them. Admittedly there are some very nice row houses on Yonge between College and Bloor that should be protected, but more are of garbage quality and should be gone sooner or later.
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If all you see are tacky souvenir shops and cheap t-shirt stores than your clearly not looking. By the way, I actually buy my workout t-shirts from two of those stores south of Wellesley because they're real cheap and they last 15 or 20 hot washes & hot dries.

Here's the deal. I don't oppose highrises at all in areas or locations that I think are appropriate (who says I'm right? I just offer my opinion) but I just happen to strongly believe that this remaining low/mid-rise, pedestrian friendly section of Yonge Street between College & Bloor should be maintained at all costs. It's always a fun walk down this stretch with plenty of stores to shop in, grab some great grub or have a coffee or drink. Much of the building stock along here is great (although it's fair to say a lot of it isn't maintained as well as it could or should be) plus Yonge Street constantly evolves and changes so there's always something closing and something new opening here. Yes, there are what you might consider "junk shops" but look at all the other shops and services (not to mention a lot of great apartments above many of the stores) that are available along here. You want high end, neatly packaged retail shops then head over to the Eaton Centre, it's all there. But a lot of things one can find along this strip could never be found at any store in the Eaton Centre. There are many shops & services (not to mention dozens of great restaurants) along here that not only attract tourists but also serve the community that lives on each side of Yonge Street from health food shops, gyms, hair cutters, adult novelty, candy shops, travel agencies, nail salons, Tattoo parlours, banks, LCBO, used CD/DVD/vinyl shops, joke/costume shops, courier outlets, shoes, leather... and on & on. Besides, do we really want a busy, vibrant Yonge Street turning into a sterile area like Bay Street? I hope not, one Bay Street is enough.

By the way, I'd equally defend many other great walkable streets against building highrises on them, Queen East/West, College west of University, Church Street Village, Danforth east of Broadview, Bloor west of Spadina and many others.
 
^^ sorry if I misunderstood you. I am not saying all downtown streets should be taken over by 50 storeys either. However, the current situation on Yonge between Dundas and Bloor is miserable. Yes, it is pretty busy most of the time, but that's mostly because Toronto has very few retail streets to begin with, not because Yonge etc is particularly successful.

Yonge does have all the different stuff you mentioned, however, I strongly believe that kind of stuff in their respectively tiny old houses with extremely narrow store front should NOT be what Toronto's most important commercial street mostly consists of. I have been to Boston's Newbury street in Backbay. All those stores also exist in older houses, not glass skyscrapers, but the difference is that those are nice houses, while Yonge st is not nice in general and apparently of lower quality, in terms of both the buildings and the goods sold. If Toronto can do a decent job in maintaining buildings and beautifying store fronts, like it did to King East, I have no problem with low rises, actually I would prefer them (something between 4-6 storeys with some consistency). Yet Yonge gives the impression of being messy, tacky, cheap, disconnected. So does Queen West. It is fine the buildings are old and short, but they are not nice looking.

I like many low rise buildings on Yonge st, such as 229 Yonge (at Shutter, "Buffalo" store), Paramount restaurant, microbrewery just south of hard Rock, NW of Yonge/College (starbucks) , and several beautiful row houses near Wellesley on the west side, which by the way, are on the way to rundown.

But honestly, the rest of the street is a complete failure. Go take a look the strip between Alexander (Marriot) and Maitland st, east side, between College and Grosvner, on the west side, the dollarquirk at Dondonald, then pretty much both sides all the way to Bloor. it is a disaster! Yah, it is busy, but not because this street is hugely successful, but because outside Eaton center, Yonge is the only place to go (Queen West is equally messy, probably worse).

Everytime something new is proposed on Yonge, I am not happy about this new project, I am just happy one more hideous rundown souvenir/Tshirt/tatoo/pizzano/quick cash/bad sharwarma will be disappear.
 
I see the beauty and potential for many of the buildings you mention above, including Stollerey's and see no reason for replacement for a lot of what lies along here. There's some crap on this strip to be sure and botched stucco jobs over some old buildings but do you really think that we're going to get something better? Some great buildings have risen downtown in the past 10-12 years but we've also had even more crap thrust upon us which most often does not serve the street well and is part one of my problem. Part two is the height issue along this here. If you look back even 15 years the buildings you mention downtown were just as run-down before they were cleaned up/restored and re-purposed. Wait until you see what happens with the block of 8 or 10 units on Yonge Street south of St. Joseph Street that are part of the FIVE complex. After they have been cleaned up and restored tell me then that you can't see the potential for the rest of that similar type of building stock.
Listen, you make some valid points but I just can't agree with all of them all so we'll just have to agree to disagree :)
 
Xray:

I think he is opposed to density immediately along the street at locations with heritage value - density along say a 5 minute walk on either side of the corridor is hardly "low".

AoD
 
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kkgg7.


In response to your post that has vanished, I would agree that this corner deserves more density, and I look forward to seeing what the heritage status is regarding the front of this building. However, to use the status of people being uninformed or ignorant with respect to "buildings with stories" as being a rationale for retaining or demolishing structures isn't a particularly reasonable means for making these decisions.

In effect, you may have unintentionally (?) posed the idea that ignorance ought to be the basis for such action.
 
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I've gotta confess that I don't have much of an issue with a highrise here in place of Stollery's. The building is quite charming and I appreciate what it adds to the context as it exists right now but this is Yonge and Bloor and there is a strong argument for going up. If there were significant 'historical' significance here or even a compelling heritage case I might feel differently but in the end you only have to look at the other three corners (imagining the southeast corner) to understand why Stollery's just doesn't make sense.
 
Tewder said:
If there were significant 'historical' significance here or even a compelling heritage case I might feel differently but in the end you only have to look at the other three corners (imagining the southeast corner) to understand why Stollery's just doesn't make sense.
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i guess it didnt even make sense back then (looking at the vicinity, i wonder what was there before that stollerys bldg. at 1 Bloor west)...check out what was across the street in the 60s

Anyways 10 pages into this will make anyone cry of what we lost throughout the years, SSC...Old pics of Toronto http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=385147&page=9

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