Toronto Surface Transit Network Plan

[Northern Light]

Perhaps LA county would be a more apt comparison which the GTA is also expected to exceed by 2041.

But my point was that if these projects are what city hall sees as long-term aspirations, rather than projects to be funded within the next 5-10 years, we are in for a very painful transit crunch.

While I am very supportive of transit; and more of same; and also in agreement that the GTA has been intentionally grown in population by senior gov't policy, at a rate with which supporting infrastructure and services has not kept pace; and cannot, without a slower pace of growth; I suspect you will find there is more transit being built by 2040 than you first imagine.

The inner parts of the GO network, will mostly be subway-lite by 2040. There is a reasonable chance that will include at least a material portion of the Milton Corridor.

I think Sheppard will be under construction in the 2030s......and complete close'ish to 2040, and that is an enormous expansion of rapid transit.

Is all that and other publicly announced projects enough?; well, no.

But if we curtail growth just a bit, I think congestion will likely be lower in 2040 than it is today; albeit, still too high.

I will then add, there is a bit more in the pipeline than publicly discussed, though on major projects, I have some doubt as to how much can be delivered prior to the mid 2040s.

On smaller items, such as improving the straight-up volume of surface service and the way it is managed; that's really a question of political will and it can be done fairly quickly.

 

[Towered]

A report to next week's Executive Committee seeks to identify and prioritize corridors for higher order transit:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-243162.pdf

From the above:

View attachment 542463
View attachment 542464

***

A couple of interesting graphics:

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This next one shows the prioritization of corridors based on preliminary assessment. I don't think those results would surprise anyone by and large............but there are some other interesting tidbits in there, in the form of Planning Assumptions
as to where Metro/Subway extensions might go in the future:

View attachment 542467

So........look up and there are some things of note..........

The City's most favoured subway extension after Sheppard and what's under way now, is the Ontario Line North......which, they envision going to Steeles.

Meanwhile, a western extension of Line 2 and the Western Waterfront LRT rank at the bottom.

So does the Jane LRT; taking the SSE north to Markham; and the Ontario Line West.

The latter of which is envisaged as being extended to Dundas West.

I find all the BRT proposals encouraging. I'm actually flabbergasted that we haven't already built a bunch of them since they're an obvious, easy and cheap solution for many arterials throughout the city.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

I find all the BRT proposals encouraging. I'm actually flabbergasted that we haven't already built a bunch of them since they're an obvious, easy and cheap solution for many arterials throughout the city.

I’m curious if this is Pie-IX style brt with full traffic separation

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I’m curious if this is Pie-IX style brt with full traffic separation

I’m guessing closer to RapidTO than anything that developed, but yeah, the corridors could all support it.

Frankly if I had my way the approach to this would be similar to LA Metro in the early days of Rapid…. Less setting a desired level of imrpovements than providing the maximum level that can be delivered, here and now, across the full system.

 

[Dan416]

View attachment 542467

I'm surprised to see the line 2 extension in the same quintile as the Sheppard extensions.

 

[nfitz]

That first map confirms my suspicions that the Wilson bus is the most hellishly overcrowded transit route in the city.

I'm a bit surprised, as I've no familiarity with that route. There must be a lot on that bus heading from outside that area, to the subway. I wonder how many would be drawn to the Finch West LRT and/or a Jane LRT.

I also wonder if there's a business case for a Barrie line Wilson GO station - there's certainly a lot of potential for a TOD there, given the very-low density industry. Though I suspect the northwest corner will remain very quiet no matter what happens, it seems a bit dead there.

If the numbers hold up, I wonder about bringing Line 4 to Wilson station instead of Sheppard West, and then just going west. Or alternatively head from Sheppard West, south-southwest through the Downsview lands to Wilson, ,and then west.

 

[nfitz]

I'm a bit surprised, as I've no familiarity with that route. There must be a lot on that bus heading from outside that area, to the subway. I wonder how many would be drawn to the Finch West LRT and/or a Jane LRT.

I also wonder if there's a business case for a Barrie line Wilson GO station - there's certainly a lot of potential for a TOD there, given the very-low density industry. Though I suspect the northwest corner will remain very quiet no matter what happens, it seems a bit dead there.

If the numbers hold up, I wonder about bringing Line 4 to Wilson station instead of Sheppard West, and then just going west. Or alternatively head from Sheppard West, south-southwest through the Downsview lands to Wilson, ,and then west.

I'm surprised to see the line 2 extension in the same quintile as the Sheppard extensions.

Yes, it's certainly looking better than last time they looked at this in a similar study in 2002. It's a shame they didn't publish the ridership this time - last time the peak was about 800 people per hour per direction - which would require a service level of one train an hour west of Kipling. In that 2002 study they eliminated Sheppard West from consideration because of limited development opportunities.

 

[allengeorge]

I wonder what all this means for transit projects that are (potentially) being discussed.

For example, my understanding is that Sheppard is being seriously talked about, consultations are happening and, maybe there’s some preliminary design in the background? Meanwhile, the Finch extension and the OL North extensions - both of which rank higher in impact - aren’t being pursued. (*)

(*) Yes - I know that last year or the year before there was a motion put forward to ask ML to explore extending Finch to Woodbine at least.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

I'm a bit surprised, as I've no familiarity with that route. There must be a lot on that bus heading from outside that area, to the subway. I wonder how many would be drawn to the Finch West LRT and/or a Jane LRT.

Jane, yes. Finch no. Finch is 4 km away (in the wrong direction for most people). That's like saying the east waterfront lrt doesn't need to be built because the area is already served by Line 2.

I also wonder if there's a business case for a Barrie line Wilson GO station - there's certainly a lot of potential for a TOD there, given the very-low density industry. Though I suspect the northwest corner will remain very quiet no matter what happens, it seems a bit dead there.

heh

If the numbers hold up, I wonder about bringing Line 4 to Wilson station instead of Sheppard West, and then just going west. Or alternatively head from Sheppard West, south-southwest through the Downsview lands to Wilson, ,and then west.

Yeah, I've had this as an idea for a while now. The Downsview redevelopment is gonna be huge and a new subway station smack dab in the middle would be great, and then you could continue west, hitting points like Humber Hospital and a potential GO Bolton line.

 

[urbancog]

then you could continue west, hitting points like Humber Hospital and a potential GO Bolton line.

terminating at Woodbine GO station, where you could connect to Pearson Airport, the Kitchener GO line, and the extended Finch W LRT

 

[Northern Light]

The Higher Order Transit Prioritization was at Council today, and has been adopted, with amendments as follows:

And

 

[Islington Express Bus]

I would have voted against the second motion, honestly. We need a lot of other transit projects before we need a line 2 extension to sherway.

 

[JasonParis]

Surprisingly, a Line 6 west study from Humber College to Woodbine Racetrack was voted against, despite it being, I'd say, one of the more likely to happen sooner.

 

[Towered]

The Higher Order Transit Prioritization was at Council today, and has been adopted, with amendments as follows:

View attachment 550077

And

View attachment 550078

OMG.

Stephen Holyday actually voted yes to something - twice in one sitting!!

 

[allengeorge]

The Higher Order Transit Prioritization was at Council today, and has been adopted, with amendments as follows:

I thought Sheppard ranked quite low in staff's assessment of potential ridership and 'impact'? In fact, in the study you linked it was in the 2nd lowest quartile. Is the first motion simply a case of Council endorsing something that's happening anyways?

Also, it's wild that:

1. A Finch West extension study was not endorsed
2. While the Line 2 extension study was endorsed

That's...weird transit prioritization to say the least. I guess (2) was an olive branch (?) to the Etobicoke councillors?