Toronto Surface Transit Network Plan

[Northern Light]

I thought Sheppard ranked quite low in staff's assessment of potential ridership and 'impact'? In fact, in the study you linked it was in the 2nd lowest quartile. Is the first motion simply a case of Council endorsing something that's happening anyways?

And yes...........this is a provincial decision.....and barring any surprising u-turns, its one that's already been taken.

The City's assessment is rather moot in that its only tangential to the decision.

I might add here, the City's assessment has its shortcomings as well, I don't think I want to pick apart the exact nature of those in this post.........but while its useful, its value shouldn't be overstated.

Also, it's wild that:

1. A Finch West extension study was not endorsed
2. While the Line 2 extension study was endorsed

That's...weird transit prioritization to say the least. I guess (2) was an olive branch (?) to the Etobicoke councillors?

Lets start by saying that these motions/endorsements are in no way binding on the province, the city or staff.

Its 'write a letter' or do a follow-up report.

So there is absolutely an element of doing right by a councillor that needs to be seen to be achieving something for his/her area.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Very specific wording, the way I read the second item: report on Etobicoke’s transit requirements and make recommendations for improvements *including but not limited to* a line 2 extension.

My guess is that the extension is not recommended for further development.

 

[Northern Light]

Very specific wording, the way I read the second item: report on Etobicoke’s transit requirements and make recommendations for improvements *including but not limited to* a line 2 extension.

My guess is that the extension is not recommended for further development.

It isn't; its a low-ranking priority.

That said, metrics chosen tip scales.

The extension taken as a whole under performs, the extension taken only to East Mall would look much better.

 

[JasonParis]

I thought Sheppard ranked quite low in staff's assessment of potential ridership and 'impact'? In fact, in the study you linked it was in the 2nd lowest quartile. Is the first motion simply a case of Council endorsing something that's happening anyways?

Also, it's wild that:

1. A Finch West extension study was not endorsed
2. While the Line 2 extension study was endorsed

That's...weird transit prioritization to say the least. I guess (2) was an olive branch (?) to the Etobicoke councillors?

Line 6 to Woodbine Racetrack or even Pearson helps Etobicoke too! But I suppose it is a bit of a branch.

I always say this too, but it's odd how little Doug Ford champions transit in his part of the city unless you consider forcing Eg West underground. As an aside, I'm happy it is grade-separated, truth be told.

 

[ShonTron]

That first map confirms my suspicions that the Wilson bus is the most hellishly overcrowded transit route in the city.

There are a number of issues on Wilson, and I used to take that bus corridor almost daily.

It’s just not the 96 Wilson, but also the 165 Weston Road North, the 118 Thistle Down, the 119 Torbarrie, the 120 Calvington, and the 996 Express. That’s a lot of buses, often arriving in bunches and then leapfrogging. The hospital has only increased demand on the corridor.

Traffic can be brutal, as it’s often used by drivers getting to and from the 401, and also as an alternative when it is congested. It’s a perfect corridor for bus priority improvements, if not full BRT.

 

[SubHuman]

That first map confirms my suspicions that the Wilson bus is the most hellishly overcrowded transit route in the city.

I'm not sure if there's been anything measured for the most crowded, but apparently Dufferin is the slowest.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-slowest-bus-route-dufferin-1.7093466

... I always say this too, but it's odd how little Doug Ford champions transit in his part of the city unless you consider forcing Eg West underground...

Is he also against bus lanes because they would "take away lanes for cars"?

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Is he also against bus lanes because they would "take away lanes for cars"?

In all seriousness? Almost certainly.

 

[Sunnyside]

In all seriousness? Almost certainly.

I want to say even Ford knows he can’t go after transit these days. Too big of a cohort and it’d clash with his infra spending. Can’t say the same for provincial bike lanes. While his auto pandering is real, there are just far too few bus lanes planned for it to remotely matter. It’d be nice if they were as common as bike lanes though!

 

[jcam]

It isn't; its a low-ranking priority.

That said, metrics chosen tip scales.

The extension taken as a whole under performs, the extension taken only to East Mall would look much better.

Or whether the justification leans on the fact that running tracks through a new Obico TTC yard gets you 1/3 of the way there...maybe we end up with an above-grade subway along North Queen that only goes underground to get under the QEW/427 interchange and into Sherway.

 

[smallspy]

Or whether the justification leans on the fact that running tracks through a new Obico TTC yard gets you 1/3 of the way there...maybe we end up with an above-grade subway along North Queen that only goes underground to get under the QEW/427 interchange and into Sherway.

Obico is on the south side of the CPR mainline, and not situated in a direct line for any extension west that would parallel Dundas. It doesn't provide any convenience for an extension.

Dan

 

[jcam]

Obico is on the south side of the CPR mainline, and not situated in a direct line for any extension west that would parallel Dundas. It doesn't provide any convenience for an extension.

Dan

I only meant they'll already have to invest in a fly-over or fly under from Kipling to get to the yard regardless if the line passes beyond Obico, and if GO ends up double tracking the Milton line as they've suggested, I'm not sure if there's corridor width for two TTC tracks to extend past the 427. Similar staging or layout on Line 1 with Wilson yard opened in 1977, then (now) Sheppard West station opened in 1996.

 

[smallspy]

I only meant they'll already have to invest in a fly-over or fly under from Kipling to get to the yard regardless if the line passes beyond Obico, and if GO ends up double tracking the Milton line as they've suggested, I'm not sure if there's corridor width for two TTC tracks to extend past the 427. Similar staging or layout on Line 1 with Wilson yard opened in 1977, then (now) Sheppard West station opened in 1996.

The subway does not use any of CPR's corridor lands as it stands now - why do you think that any future extension would?

For the record, all of the old extension plans called for the City attaining land immediately north of CPR's, and in fact the first building or two west of Kipling Station have been built to allow for the subway to pass alongside or underneath them. It seems to me that any future extension further west would continue on that idea.

Dan