Toronto Sugar Wharf Condominiums (Phase 1) | 231m | 70s | Menkes | a—A

Preliminary renders of the new look for towers D & E:

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So...what options really exist when a proposal such as this is not of the quality that a rarified group like this would like?

1. What real options does the city have?
2. What public policy issue is there when a proposal is not top calibre? Does the average citizen care? And if they don't, what motivation does the municipal government have to respond to criticism such as has been presented here.

I understand fully that an ugly behemoth visible from the harbour will be there for the next 200 years - and as much as anyone here, I'd prefer a striking skyline - but who really cares?
 
TransitBart said:
So...what options really exist when a proposal such as this is not of the quality that a rarified group like this would like?

1. What real options does the city have?
2. What public policy issue is there when a proposal is not top calibre? Does the average citizen care? And if they don't, what motivation does the municipal government have to respond to criticism such as has been presented here.

I understand fully that an ugly behemoth visible from the harbour will be there for the next 200 years - and as much as anyone here, I'd prefer a striking skyline - but who really cares?
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Has any government asked the public if they care? I haven't seen any evidence that they have. Sure, people aren't protesting in the streets but whenever I talk with friends or family about Toronto's building boom, I hear lots of complaints aout ugly buildings. People seem to be most upset about the skyscrapers, so yeah, I do think people care or at least that's the feedback I get.

Also on my Youtube channel, Torontopia, I get a lot of messages from tourists, asking me advice on Toronto and I also get lots of feedback when they leave the city and the major complaints I hear about over and over are homeless people, ugly buildings and traffic/overcrowding on the TTC. Complaints about Toronto's architecture is right up there near the top. So yes, I think it is an issue!
 
Torontovibe said:
Has any government asked the public if they care? I haven't seen any evidence that they have. Sure, people aren't protesting in the streets but whenever I talk with friends or family about Toronto's building boom, I hear lots of complaints aout ugly buildings. People seem to be most upset about the skyscrapers, so yeah, I do think people care or at least that's the feedback I get.

Also on my Youtube channel, Torontopia, I get a lot of messages from tourists, asking me advice on Toronto and I also get lots of feedback when they leave the city and the major complaints I hear about over and over are homeless people, ugly buildings and traffic/overcrowding on the TTC. Complaints about Toronto's architecture is right up there near the top. So yes, I think it is an issue!
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[Setting aside homelessness as an issue for another thread.]

Do you share this feedback with the city tourism officials and your councillor? The question is - not whether what you have said is an issue - but rather - where is this on anyone's radar?

Transit and TTC crowding (general experience) is on people's radar these days. Ugly buildings, less so. Tourists don't vote.
 
Honestly I have trouble believing most tourists take issue with the architecture in Toronto (not suggesting you're lying, I'm suggesting the people you're getting feedback from aren't representative). I presume most tourists are from smaller cities (especially given that they're complaining about homeless people and TTC crowding) where anything other than a 5 story box is impressive. If you walk around the Financial District it's full of tourists pointing their cameras upwards at buildings we'd probably consider standard and boring like Bay Adelaide Centre and Commerce Court West. Plus, most major cities (e.x. New York, London) have a handful of outstanding architectural buildings - more than Toronto, yes - but then tons and tons AND TONS of standard and boring condo and apartment buildings. I was in London recently and was shocked at how boring most of the buildings were outside of the major tourist go-to buildings (the Shard, the Gherkin etc. - I'm not counting old buildings like St Paul's, since we're discussing modern architecture).

I very much wish every building in Toronto was world-class architecture. I'd love a mayor to come in and say we're going to incentivize builders that make their buildings an architectural destination in themselves. But I think it's incorrect to believe that we're the only major city that is putting up mostly standard rectangular condos.
 
I think the problem is that condominium architecture here is not evolving. These are the same designs we saw 10 years ago. Sure there are standouts but it's rinse and repeat for the most part.
I wish developers would look to architects outside of Canada more often. We always get more interesting, fresh designs.
 
Automation Gallery said:
Yeah, looks like Toronto area architects have lost their touch to design anything interesting,
basically they don't give a hoot:(
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Architects generally do give a hoot, but the developers who pay the bills put constraints on the creativity of the designs. AG, have you not learned that yet in the 800 years you've been on this forum?

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