Toronto St Regis Toronto Hotel and Residences | 281.93m | 58s | JFC Capital | Zeidler

Re: Trump

Don't know if Toronto is ready for that kind of transformation.
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I'm not sure if it's a matter of Toronto being ready for that kind of transformation, so much as it is prospective buyers being ready to be the ones to make it happen. I wouldn't pay top dollar for the pleasure of trying to shock Bay Street to life.
 
"I wouldn't pay top dollar for the pleasure of trying to shock Bay Street to life."

Does it need to be shocked to life?
 
Re: Trump

I've always felt that it did, oddly enough, even though Bay Street isn't exactly a unified whole. Even the highly residential condo canyon between Queen and Bloor has always struck me as dead, dead, dead, lacking any street life or sense of place or any other tired Jane Jacobs-ism you'd care to throw at it. It's just bleh.

And as for Bay south of Queen, after the eastward jog... well, it's the financial core. What are you gonna do? Will a handful of large condo/hotel towers make it any less windswept at night?

The Shangri-la marketing materials talk about how the tower is perched at the boundary between the downtown's entertainment and financial districts. I thought that was astute, because if there's one thing about our core, it's that its boundaries don't really blur. And - if you're looking for signs of life after business hours - Bay and Adelaide is still on the wrong side of it.
 
It might not nesessarily be a large number of condo projects that do it, but actually some nice restaurants and clubs that are in the financial district that people can actually go to. Otherwise you will still see those new residents leaving the core to go elsewhere.
 
Re: Trump

I've always felt that it did, oddly enough, even though Bay Street isn't exactly a unified whole. Even the highly residential condo canyon between Queen and Bloor has always struck me as dead, dead, dead, lacking any street life or sense of place or any other tired Jane Jacobs-ism you'd care to throw at it. It's just bleh.
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I've, myself, always blamed the Eaton Centre, and also the PATH for this. What if there was no Eaton Centre, or the Path. Fine, downtown would overall probably loose retail overall, but a lot of that would move to the streets. Where do those residents on bay shop? Some on Queen st, yes, but I would bet quite a lot of their dollars get spent in these subterrainian malls, connected to the mother of all malls. I don't think 'Jacobs-ism' envisioned these communities where the bigger retail draws come in mall format. If you look at the extreme example - in Manhattan (exluding harlem), where there is really only 1 mall, even though its not too big, retail exists within the bases of both office and residential buildings. This causes a steady stream of pedestrians in highrise residential areas, where in Toronto, there is less in similar type areas.
 
I think the main issue on Bay is that one can only have so many shopping streets in a city core. Even New York has many avenues with very few shops. Bay has never really been a big shopping street, unlike, say, Yonge, Queen, and Bloor. Moreover, the shopping space at the base of those condos isn't particularly attractive. I also doubt that the condo boards are willing to take risks on many of the small independent businesses that might conceivably set up there. Obviously a chain store isn't going to open up on Bay when they already have a store on Queen, on Bloor, and either on Yonge or in the Eaton Centre.
 
Re: Trump

The financial district is...well it's the financial district, not the shopping district. There is the odd isolated restaurant there that is popular beyond work hours but mostly people want to get out of there and relax.
 
SNF:

There is some after-business-hours life in the core - I don't think it is so dead as is being made out.

If you're still wearing a suit you're socially acceptable at Ki at Bay and Wellington, or Bymark on Wellington in the TDC, or at Jump in CC. All three pack their patios. Head to the eastern edge and you've got the Irish Embassy on Yonge, Zen at the Cosmopolitan on Colborne, and a number of places on Wellingon towards Church, and the same along Front and the Esplanade. Those are all within a short walking distance of Trump, and there are more than just that: buyers at Trump are not going to be left stranded for dinner joints.

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Re: Trump

There's that place in FCP - upstairs, overlooking the little park near the Exchange tower. That's full of garrulous thirtysomethings in suits, and their equivalent womenfolk, after hours.
 
Re: Trump

There is some after-business-hours life in the core - I don't think it is so dead as is being made out.
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You're right, and, of course, we're talking about a - what, ten-minute walk to Queen West at University (mm, Queen Mum), less to where Queen East gets interesting.

And yet people live where they *are*, not where they're close to, and that stretch of Bay is just plain inhuman. Windblown, sunless, corporate food-court city. I mean, I love it down there for those reasons exactly. But I love it for its uninvitingness. Not the kind of thing that interests homeowners...
 
Hmm...

I'll have to think about the "live where they "are"" (I just wanted to use up my daily quota of quotation marks) claim. I'm not sure I buy that most personal worlds are quite that small.

If you're right SNF, then Trump purchasers (known hencefore as Trumpets and/or Trumpettes) still need not worry. To use up yet more quotation marks, "On-site dining includes an exquisite five-star formal restaurant, a casual dining room, and a martini and sushi bar." or so says the website. So who cares about windblown, univiting Bay Street? Trumpets have their own four walls to cradle them in five-star luxury.

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Re: Trump

I don't mind Bay St. south of Queen. Maybe it's the scale of the street but it doesn't feel the same as Bay north of Queen. The architecture is better, and the City Hall bell tower creating a point tower adds a nice vista. Not bad at all, I'd say.
 
Re: Trump

Re Bay Street N of Queen: keep in mind College Park's under-the-wire ascendance as a "local mall" equivalent, what with Dominion and Winners and DeBoers etc...
 
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