Toronto St Regis Toronto Hotel and Residences | 281.93m | 58s | JFC Capital | Zeidler

Re: Trump

Hello Andrew,
Thank you for your response to our recent e-mail. We will be breaking
ground this fall and occupancy is Spring 2009.
Please call if you have any questions about availability for the residential
or hotel suites.
Sincerely,

Lisa Searchfield
Sales Executive
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I'm sure the demographic that would be buying in this building would love a letter that starts with "Hello Andrew". A little casual wouldn't you think? Do the sales staff have casual Fridays like my bank does?
 
Re: Trump

Will,

Declaring the Trump tower 'dead' was a bit sensationalist, but I meant to say that the current project has very few redeeming features for the prices they are asking and some condo developers in Toronto now offer a little more for quite a bit less money than they did 5 years ago.

My facts are not based on sales figures, but after a while of posting on these forums, you get a sense of what project is a shoe-in and what's left for dead. All signs of the Trump project point to failure: it's been on the market for over 5 years and has changed ownership and designs twice (the city sent the designers back to the drawing board because the original Kirkor design was hopelessly kitschy). The Ritz Carlton hotel group, which initially proposed the highrise condo/hotel tower now known as TTT, bailed out but then successfully hired a world class architect to design a 50-storey condo down the street that sold out in mere months. Trump flooded Toronto media with expensive full page ads in all of the major dailies, and this condo has had more than its fair share of exposure but, even so, units failed to move and in the last few months there has been a lull in advertising. I first heard of the proposal to build a tower there in November of 2000, nearly six years ago. To give you an idea of how long ago that was, in the same month William Thorsell of the ROM first openly touched on the idea of maybe spearheading a capital project to redesign the ROM and OCAD announced that it was looking to expand. Over 70,000 new condo units have been constructed in the GTA since the Trump tower (née Ritz Carlton) was first announced, quite a few of them being million-dollar units that would have appealed to Trump buyers. Why, then, has TTT failed to move 400 or so units during that time? They're not cold, hard facts, but these are the kinds of considerations that we should consider when we assess the viability of this project.
 
Re: Trump

Those are definitely excellent points that Alchemist has brought up. I still have faith in this project and would really like for it to get built. I agree with the forumers who mentioned that Trump will end up meeting the street really well, however i beg to differ in terms of its "height impact", especially close up. I beleive Trump's slenderness will allow it to stand out much more in terms of sheer height. Thin towers always look taller than bulkier ones. Although from a distance it might not stand out as much becuse of the amazing density and "thickness" of our MINT towers.
 
Re: Trump

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to lump the whole saga under one umbrella. The concept of a Trump Tower there has been around for five years, but that's not the same as actually having been on the market for that long.

The other points are well-taken, though. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a peek into their order book right about now...
 
Re: Trump

As I've said previously, I believe this project is designed to generate publicity, not to actually get built.
 
Re: Trump

babel, I have heard of the concept that there's "no such thing as bad publicity", and Donald Trump may be one of the more prominent exponents of this practice. Having said that, he's also a pretty canny business man, and his reputation in business (as opposed to perhaps the more personal side of his life) has been good to date. Even with his Atlantic City casinos, which bit the dust, he could say that he wasn't the only one in that position, and he has rebounded.

The Canadian market may be just different enough from the U.S. markets that Trump is more used to, that he may have misjudged what would appeal here. My own feeling, a gut feeling not really backed by "facts", is that the Toronto market may be more demanding of leading-edge or more modern design, as compared to, say, New York. For all of the "energy" in New York, as I have looked at ads for new buildings in the New York Times, many of them strike me as a good deal more traditional than is now seen in Toronto (although I do grant the good point made already that Trump's target market skews toward the older and more conservative end).

I'm not sure whether this project will go ahead or not. It's premature to declare it dead. Good arguments have been made on this thread as to why it might be in trouble, and it's a fact that it certainly has taken a very long time to be marketed as compared to comparable projects. If it does end up failing, I can't see it as other than a pretty major black mark for Mr. Trump.
 
Re: Trump

Also keep in mind that when Trump first got into the market, there was practically no other competitor (save perhaps 1KW). Now, the project will have to contend with far more proven brands like Ritz Carlton, 4 Seasons and Shangri-La.

Another thing to note is that the site for Trump is very restricted as to what kind of building and amenities one can put in, which could make it less competitive than other proejcts.

AoD
 
Re: Trump

^ "Amenities include... bank headquarters and food court."
 
Re: Trump

Will1538: AlchemisTO is one ... of the most respected contributors on this forum.
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Can you post these rankings, I'd like to see where I list.

TTT has few options at this point. Ritz, Four Seasons, Shangria-Lai, 1 St Thomas have clearly scooped the higher end of the market with better offerings. The only viable strategy is for TTT to cheap-out (while managing litigation risk) and sell the remaining units to lower end buyers. In a sense they have already begun this process by reducing unit sizes while other projects have increased unit sizes. Possibly TTT could cut the number of floors as well.

At this point the city is better off with an office tower going in.

I would also add to AlchemisTO's points the fact Mr. Snaider the Russian tycoon seems to be distancing himself as well - in fact he's gone invisible. I assume people are looking for some exit strategy that optimizes litigation, reputation, costs.
 
Re: Trump

None of us bought any units and he realized he was wasting his time.
 
Meanwhile, at Bay and Adelaide, the big Trump sign and rendering sits there, torn asunder, conspicuously un-mended.
 
Re: Trump

I wouldn't call this project dead yet. 1KW was in "sales" for what, 10 years before it was built? And that was with an unusual pricing/investment scheme.
 
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