Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

There is actually something rather comic (or merely sad?) that Toronto has all these major transit projects going (Transit City redux, the Spadina extension, not to mention the DRL and Yonge extension) and absolutely none of it will be ready for Pan Am, unless I'm forgetting some piece. The airport link, if it's on time, I guess?

In some places (like, say, Vancouver) they try to use the games as an excuse to drive infrastructure construction. Here it seems to be same ol, same ol....No rush.

 

[nfitz]

There is actually something rather comic (or merely sad?) that Toronto has all these major transit projects going (Transit City redux, the Spadina extension, not to mention the DRL and Yonge extension) and absolutely none of it will be ready for Pan Am, unless I'm forgetting some piece. The airport link, if it's on time, I guess?

GO service expansion and the new station in Hamilton is on time. As is the Mississauga Transitway. I'd hardly say that the DRL and Yonge extension are going ... we've been talking about them for decades.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

GO service expansion and the new station in Hamilton is on time. As is the Mississauga Transitway. I'd hardly say that the DRL and Yonge extension are going ... we've been talking about them for decades.

Wasn't the transitway supposed to open this year?

 

[Dan416]

Wasn't the transitway supposed to open this year?

And it has been in planning for decades...

 

[BurlOak]

How do you do that without adjusting the contracts, which would cost more money? That's the big issue. Who would pay for extra money to try and expedite a portion of this?

Something might well be technically doable to provide limited service for Steeles West. But at what cost, and most importantly, who would pay for it?

Whoever is responsible for the delay would pay. Assuming that the TTC had a well designed extension with sound contract documents, that would be the Contractor.

 

[nfitz]

Wasn't the transitway supposed to open this year?

Not on any schedule I recall. Perhaps one from before they started construction - though that would be late for a different reason. Wasn't the Queen subway line supposed to open in 1980?

Whoever is responsible for the delay would pay. Assuming that the TTC had a well designed extension with sound contract documents, that would be the Contractor.

Pay for extra costs because of the delay perhaps - though not sure what they pay as TTC is still saying there's no extra costs that have been incurred.

Pay to completely rejig the project to allow for a phase opening? No.

 

[TOareaFan]

How do you do that without adjusting the contracts, which would cost more money? That's the big issue. Who would pay for extra money to try and expedite a portion of this?

Something might well be technically doable to provide limited service for Steeles West. But at what cost, and most importantly, who would pay for it?

Sorry for slow reply...didn't see your post!

Like I said, I have never built a subway so I don't know....but (IMO) it would be worth looking at.

As for additional cost...that is what I mean by worth looking at. Who knows what those costs are (they may already have looked at it and not published it).......what we laymen know is that there is a subway being built that will open +/- a year after the games...so that means that it will be pretty far advanced.....having no experience in building them this is a guess but I would think that all of the tunneling would be done before the "one year to opening" point.......there is a cost associated with the subway and that is for 100% completion......presumably there is a "standard" order of building these things.....I guess we would be asking....."once all the tunelling is done, can we focuse on getting track to Steeles West and getting that station finished/open...then after the games, shut the thing down and finish the rest.....is that possible and how much extra would it cost".

If it is possible, it might be worth going to the Feds and saying "along with you, we kinda invited the world here and our subway needs this much extra $ to get them to a couple of key venues.....wanna, you know, be a good host and pay for that".

With no experience building these things I have no idea whether it is either possible or worth it....but I think it is worth looking at and costing. Particularly if one of the goals of Pan Am games hosting is to lay the ground work for future possible events...to prove we can do it.

Leaving it to a subway to Downsview then bus to track (and reversed on way back which will be worse) is just setting us up for criticism on our transit system/capibilitites.

 

[nfitz]

Leaving it to a subway to Downsview then bus to track (and reversed on way back which will be worse) is just setting us up for criticism on our transit system/capibilitites.

If this was really an issue, I'd assume that the people behind the games would have come out and said something a couple of years ago, when TTC started clearly saying that the subway wouldn't open until late 2015 at the earliest.

 

[TOareaFan]

If this was really an issue, I'd assume that the people behind the games would have come out and said something a couple of years ago, when TTC started clearly saying that the subway wouldn't open until late 2015 at the earliest.

A couple of years ago the track and field was going to Hamilton......not much has really impressed me about the Pam Am games organising folks....it would not surprise me in the least if no one there has tried or even thought out the logistics of getting to/from York.

Getting people to events by a combination of subway and bus is doable and kinda works.......getting them back that way is a nightmare. People arrive at events a different times....there are those that go well in advance/hang around/check out the stadium/etc....there are those that get there "right on time" and there are those that are always late.

So a steady stream of buses meating a steady stream of subways can (in a pinch) get people to the event.

Leaving, however, everyone leaves at the same time. I have a bit of experience with how difficult it is....the hockey rink in Chicago is bus served...crazy after games...the rink in Ottawa....similar combo of buses/cars and crazy lineups after events.

This past summer my daughter and 3 friends went to a show at Downsview....being a good suburban girl, trained in transit usage, she and her friends were happy to use the GO-subway-bus combo to the event....they were surprised, though, when I insisted on picking them up afterwards........they were grateful though as we drove away past the absolutely shambolic site of thousands of people milling/streaming/cramming around vying for spots on the buses that were going to take them to the Downsview station....it was a mess (as these things always are).

All I am saying is that if we can avoid that being people's/visitor's image of Toronto's transit capibilities...we should at least look at it.

 

[nfitz]

A couple of years ago the track and field was going to Hamilton

Good point - so the decision to move the stadium was made knowing full well there'd be no subway by then.

All I am saying is that if we can avoid that being people's/visitor's image of Toronto's transit capibilities...we should at least look at it.

They probably should have looked at it 2 years ago. If neither the province or feds have no interest, I don't see anyone point even raising the issue now. The City would end up with a bill in the 9-digit range, and we'd be hearing again and again for the next 2 decades about TTC not being able to keep on budget.

 

[TOareaFan]

Good point - so the decision to move the stadium was made knowing full well there'd be no subway by then.

They probably should have looked at it 2 years ago. If neither the province or feds have no interest, I don't see anyone point even raising the issue now. The City would end up with a bill in the 9-digit range, and we'd be hearing again and again for the next 2 decades about TTC not being able to keep on budget.

That presumes they have been approached/asked....if that is the case, then sure. I get the sense though that no one outside of these boards (actually outside of you and I ) are even discussing this.

 

[nfitz]

That presumes they have been approached/asked....if that is the case, then sure. I get the sense though that no one outside of these boards (actually outside of you and I ) are even discussing this.

Perhaps a councillor should be asking the question during today's meeting. If only hypothetically.

 

[vz64]

From the project site:

"Tunnel Boring Machines "Yorkie" and "Torkie" Complete Second Section of Twin Tunnels December 3, 2012", which means that the Toronto part of the tunneling is almost done; Holey and Moley should be back at the Downsview station (Sheppard West?) very soon:

 

[Tuscani01]

From the project site:

"Tunnel Boring Machines "Yorkie" and "Torkie" Complete Second Section of Twin Tunnels December 3, 2012", which means that the Toronto part of the tunneling is almost done; Holey and Moley should be back at the Downsview station (Sheppard West?) very soon:

According to the maps and timelines, Holey is nearly there, and Moley is expected to reach the extraction shaft in January. It would be nice to see this part of the line up and running well before the rest, though I am assuming the stations are nowhere near completion to even make this possible.

 

[nfitz]

It would be nice to see this part of the line up and running well before the rest, though I am assuming the stations are nowhere near completion to even make this possible.

It would be nice ... but even if the some of the stations are completed, there's no plans to do the track, signalling, electrical, or commissioning work in more than one contract. To break it up, even if just breaking up the timeframes, would increase costs.